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Could Nolan use EPIC to achieve his IMAX dream shoot?

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Mark David

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http://www.collider.com/2010/10/27/batman-3-the-dark-knight-rises-3d-the-riddler/

Great article on what's going on with the next Batman, but this really got me thinking...

Finally, Nolan confirms what we already suspected: the film won’t be in 3D. Cinematographer Wally Pfister shares Nolan’s lack of enthusiasm for the technology. However, they’re both fans of IMAX and will “…instead use high-definition approaches and IMAX cameras to strike out on a different cinematic path…” Nolan filmed the intro of the Dark Knight in IMAX. Does this mean he’s going to film all of The Dark Knight Rises with IMAX cameras? The cameras are known for being loud and unwieldy, but perhaps the technology has come far enough that he can get them to do what he needs.
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I'd love to see what Nolan and Pfister could put together with some Epic HDRx™.
 
the quote "use high-definition approaches" makes me think they are looking into the EPIC
 
Chuck Z said:
I thought they hate the look of digital cameras.
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He's said that he dramatically prefers film to digital, but the last time I saw him speak on the subject was two years ago during a BD-Live chat for TDK, and we all know the strides that have been made since then. I still wouldn't count on it that he'll use digital.
 
Jonathan Stevenson said:
You'd need an Epic 645 to do this though, wouldn't you?
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No, a full frame Epic Monstro will do the job, I think. Yes, 645 will be better, but FF35 will work for IMAX. It can give you a clean 4K 3:2 RGB finish for IMAX.
 
I cant see Nolan going digital anytime soon. He has stated on numerous occasions that he will shoot on film for as long as he can so I don't think he will convert for the 3rd Batman film. He wants to shoot on IMAX as much as possible. He will probably do what he did on the Dark Knight, part IMAX part 35mm. If he were to use 35mm, there would be no incentive to go digital because other than the Epic, there are no digital cams that beat 35mm film. On a huge project like the Batman film, he may also shy away from a new system and by the time they get around to shooting it, the Epic will still be in its infancy. The only way I can see Nolan going Epic or digital in general is to free up funding to shoot more IMAX footage. I believe IMAX costs 3x to 4x the amount it costs to shoot on 35mm film so they will need all the cost savings they can get and digital may be the answer.

So they question is, how well do you think Epic at 5K will cut with IMAX and would it cut equally if not better than 35mm film?
 
mount 4 EPICs in a 'square' configuration, so each shoots a quadrant of the final frame, then stitch each camera's images together in post, and you'd blow away the resolution of IMAX. and i bet your rig would be smaller, lighter, quieter and cheaper than a single IMAX camera anyways.
 
Chris Parker said:
mount 4 EPICs in a 'square' configuration, so each shoots a quadrant of the final frame, then stitch each camera's images together in post, and you'd blow away the resolution of IMAX. and i bet your rig would be smaller, lighter, quieter and cheaper than a single IMAX camera anyways.
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That is actually a pretty interesting idea, I never thought of something like that. I would try to stitch two red's together though, 4 would be a nightmare. 3D shoots have a hard enough time syncing up 2 cameras, let alone 4. I wonder what the advantages would be of stitching multiple cameras together. Post would be a nightmare though. I am sure that no matter how perfectly you did it, it would still need a lot of post tweaking to get them to match up perfectly. Good luck pulling focus as well!

You would also be limited by what focal lengths you could use. I am pretty sure wide angle lenses would be out of the question because each of the 4 cameras would have distortion at the edges. Still, an interesting idea, some with two R1's should try it to see how it turns out.
 
Andrew Rieger said:
I cant see Nolan going digital anytime soon. He has stated on numerous occasions that he will shoot on film for as long as he can so I don't think he will convert for the 3rd Batman film.
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...and based on this article, Wally Pfister doesn't seem so eager to shoot digitally anytime soon...

Quote from the article:

..some decisions have already been made about the film's photography. "But I know one thing about the film that Chris is adamant about is that he wants to shoot on film," Pfister said. "He doesn't want to shoot on video, and I'm the same way."
 
Darnit, someone had to say it! I've been planning the construction of a particular rig for HDSLR use to get 4K for under $5,000 TODAY. It's very simple and possible with simple accessories on the market right now. Only problem is that I don't have any funding to experiment when I'm moving more towards 3D animation and motion capture.

I've already mapped it out. You would have to use basic lens choices, nothing fancy, and nothing wider than 35mm. Your ideal would be 50mm for each camera as the setup would be close together and that saves you some edge space to converge.

Having said that, the first major problem comes up immediately. How do you monitor all four cameras at once? The simple answer is to view the LCD screens, however, the spacing between each screen makes it difficult as you won't be able to tell accurate focus, edge spacing, as well as overall convergence. So, the solution is to use external LCD's, thus adding to the cost of the setup and not entirely eliminating the visible convergence factor.

The other issue that pops up is composition. Having four cameras to map out the one image means that you have to treat the rig as if it were a much bigger camera. Meaning that to get that closeup, you would not only have to consider using different focal lengths but you would also have to place the camera much closer than expected. For wide shots, the same thing applies, you would have to move farther away than normal as you would be unable to use a wider focal length due to convergence issues.

The post convergence issue is the number one problem with this setup, you would essentially have to give up the edges of the frame, not only for convergence sake, but also to eliminate any lens distortions at the edges of the frame, so you might end up more along the lines of 3K, more or less after trimming and adjustments.

Once you figure out the proper stitching, you can then start editing it within a 16:9 4K frame and go from there. Granted, if you used Canon, that means you're working with four h.264 streams for one frame unless you pre-render it out as a single 4K video, which would be the most practical way of doing it for ease of use. The capability is already there to play multiple frames in one window, it's just a matter of stitching them together properly.

However, like I said, setting this all up and testing it out is the only way to know if it would actually work and whether it is practical enough to actually be useful. I would imagine that after a few tests, it would be easy to determine exact settings and framing ratios for post so that the process could be streamlined.
 
You could always stream 4 video sources to one big production monitor. I would certainly overlap the cameras slightly as well. Any lens with distortion (not sure at what focal lengths wide-angle lenses start to distort) will be impossible to use. So ya, your shooting options would be very limited. I can see why you would want to try this with something like a 7D but for an Epic, I do not see the point. One Epic would be sufficient for IMAX.

I would also use PL cine lenses since they are way more precise than standard Canon's.
 
They should do the entire thing in IMAX. I will be surprised, and a bit annoyed, if the majority is 35 again. I really admire and respect Nolan and Pfister for going old school (film, sets, miniatures, minimal CGI, etc..) in a world where everyone else is doing just the opposite. But they should take it all the way...go 100% IMAX film and blow us all away. There should be no budgetary constraints for this film.
 
Craig Ryan said:
They should do the entire thing in IMAX. I will be surprised, and a bit annoyed, if the majority is 35 again. I really admire and respect Nolan and Pfister for going old school (film, sets, miniatures, minimal CGI, etc..) in a world where everyone else is doing just the opposite. But they should take it all the way...go 100% IMAX film and blow us all away. There should be no budgetary constraints for this film.
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Um, you do realize that this practically impossible right? IMAX documentaries are easy-ish to shoot on the IMAX cameras because lets face it, they are pretty simple compared to standard films. All they require is a nice location, a strong ass tripod and a crew to work it. There are usually no actors (except for the voice over) and they have no special effects or sets. Pretty location + Camera the size of a tailgate cooler = IMAX documentary.

The lightest IMAX camera is like 50+ pounds and on top of that they are noisy. They go through film like 4x as fast and since the film is so much larger, it costs a ton to develop and scan it. A 1000 ft roll lasts like 4 minutes.

Ya, it looks stunning but I doubt that a feature film with actors and FX will ever be shot exclusively in the format. There are reports that IMAX is working on a digital camera with a 70mm sensor but I am sure it is a long way off.
 
IMHO, Epic X is not ready for IMAX. It's just not enough resolution. If the sensor was 3:2, it could work, but not at 16:9. You need to trim too much to get to 3:2 for IMAX, which I believe will replace 4:3. Many actual IMAX screens are set up more for 3:2 anyway. That's what I've been told.

Then again, if I can land an IMAX picture and FF35 Monstro is delayed, I might be singing another tune. ;)
 
The problem with stitching 4 camera together is thus:

You may save money in production, however, your post production time goes about twice as long as normal due to the extra work involved. It would be much easier and probably the same cost to shoot on IMAX.

I have to agree with Nolan on film though. It's still the gold standard in my book, and the only camera I've seen that comes close to it is the Alexa. Red has a very distinct look to it, no matter what you do to it in post, you can still look at the image and say "that was shot on Red", which I find to be a detriment from an audience perspective.
 
Tom Lowe said:
IMHO, Epic X is not ready for IMAX. It's just not enough resolution. If the sensor was 3:2, it could work, but not at 16:9. You need to trim too much to get to 3:2 for IMAX, which I believe will replace 4:3. Many actual IMAX screens are set up more for 3:2 anyway. That's what I've been told.

Then again, if I can land an IMAX picture and FF35 Monstro is delayed, I might be singing another tune. ;)
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Not going to argue with anything you said, but think of it this way: would you rather watch 35mm DMR or Epic 5k on an IMAX screen? It's not much more resolution than 35, but enough to make a difference I think. And seeing how it's a ways away before FF is out, it is really the only option as a digital IMAX alternative without going the route of a dual camera setup.

I stand by what I said earlier about 100% IMAX. I've yet to hear a reasonable argument why they can't. Audio? Most movies are ADR. As long as they can get a guide track it's pretty common that even simple dialogue scenes are completely rerecorded in post. That's not such a glaring issue.
 
Yes, Epic X features (Hobbit?) will look much better on IMAX, for sure.

I was talking about shooting an "IMAX film." A proper IMAX film. For that, I think you need to step up with a super-clean 4K RGB 3:2.
 
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