What to show in showreels - Re Martins advice

[Gunleik Groven]

oh and finally - I was at a presentation 2 weeks ago in which someone showed me their showreel.. straight away I noticed at least 10 clips that had been filmed by other people (two of whom are from this forum). I took him aside and politely asked when and where this was shot, which company held the rights etc... very red faced he told me that he was just showing the quality of the Red camera so clients could see the quality they would be paying for. Turns out he dosen't even own a Red, just planned to rent it out as and when he needed it.

So, this is sort of an interesting discussion, even though I don't even have a showreel out @ the moment...

RED and all take projects like Pirates and directors like Soderbergh as an argument to shoot RED.

And they are.
For RED. Who sells cameras.
But at least for most of us, who are not in the camera-selling and developing business, these are weird firstline arguments, to put it mildly IMHO.




There are @ least three things one would want to show off:

1. The most important
Ones capacity as a director/producer/DOP/VFX-artist/online-artist
Who have chosen to endorse you and your work.

2. The less important
What shows and producer who have endorsed the same equipment as yourself. Thus: Reliability and conformity for the type of project which is proposed.
Ease of mind for your partner...

3. The least important
The capacity of the equipment you use if it is placed in the right hands.


On one hand I can definitely see the argument for #3, and I don't even think it is wrong to do so - given that one is open about it (who shot/produced) and have arranged with the ones owning the material in such a way that you are formally allowed to use it.

Still I cannot see how #3 will not backfire on you eventually...

Let's say I would like to play the Violin and bought a Stradivarius and tried to get gigs by showing off recordings by vilolinsts playing Stradivariuses...

See what I am getting at?

It could maybe be a good way to promote the brand, but it would probably NOT land me a gig. It COULD on the other hand land me some rental gigs for other violinists who'd like to test the Strad.

@ #2
These can be good verbal arguments, as long as they are followed by #1.

Let's do the Strad thingy again...

Yes. Good people can do fantastic things with a Strad, and they can rely on it as a tool to make great music.

Me on the other hand, wouldn't even know which strings to choose for a baroque piece over the strings I'd needed for a contemporary piece.

I know I should tune the thing different if I was playing in a reconstructionist "old music" ensemble than for a current Disney-ensemble thingy, but exactly the specifics in the difference...

See where I am going?

@ #1
It is the first and most relevant thing, if you want to land a gig.

The fact that it is possible to pull lovely keys from material shot on RED, doesn't immedeatly qualify you as a compositor/VFX artist only because you have a RED.

etc etc etc.

Actually it sort of boils down to identifying when you're a customer and when you are a supplier.
For the Epic vs Alexa debacle, most of us are potential customers and have to resort to #2 and #3.
As to land gigs for ourselves, I cannot really see that anything but #1 is of significance for the first impression...

So I must admit I only get confused and amused by people using other peoples work in their reels. What is the point, exactly?
Wanting to get crucified either by the customer (if he or she is of knowledge) by the community (if the reel is on web-display) or on the production (because you most likely cannot replicate a 300m$ production and talent on a 1k$ dollar/day one-man band gig...)

Cheers!
Gunleik

 

[Tom Gleeson]

No Excuse

No Excuse

You are being very generous in your judgement of this individual. Anybody who has a substantial number of shots from other people on their reel without clear attribution is stealing and he is a fraud. Rationalising his position as an attempt to show what the Red Camera is capable of is IMHO pathetic. If he wished to demonstrate the capabilities of the camera as opposed to his abilities he should have a separate "Red Camera Reel" that clearly indicates it has been authored by others.

Using other peoples work on your reel is never justifiable and if a client found out you would likely never work for them again.

Tom Gleeson

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I am NOT commenting any individual.... Did not see his reel or his statements about it. If he branded other shots as his own, that is theft. And besides the discussion...

 

[Richard Foster]

I agree with Tom. A showreel is to show your work, period. Anything else is false representation. If a potential client has trepidations about using RED then one can tell that person of projects shot on the camera, or even refer him to other clips or reels that utilize the RED. The point of a reel is to show your own skills and creative accomplishments. Owning a Ferrari does not mean you know how to drive it.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I agree.

I am not defending any wrongdoing here.
And for the record, I wouldn't ever put in images I hadn't shot, produced (in case of a company showreel), graded or DP'd in my reel.
But I think it is even then a point, to point out to the client what your specific role was in what was shown...

That's MY view...

 

[Jay Gannon]

If your an owner/op link to red.com on your equipment page. But not on your showreel page.
I don't have a showreel myself (DIT) but have cut a few, I make the suggestion to put in the bottom right hand corner of each shot small enough:

Title of Movie (Year)
Job Title

That way people know what your claiming from each shot.

 

[Scott Crawley]

The point of the show reel is to promote what you are selling. If you are a Director, Producer or DP etc. The primary thing you need to promote is YOU .

Reels that showcase gear are for rental houses.

That's not to say that you can't also promote your gear but that should be secondary, so you should use your own Red footage to accomplish that goal. When you use your own shots you are saying; This is me, and this is what I can do with my wonderful camera... As opposed to the other way 'round in which you say "This is a Red camera. It is great, therefore I am great."

Knowledgeable clients (The ones who know how to produce a quality product, the ones worth working for, the ones who actually have money to hire us, the ones who will appreciate you for your skill instead of exploit you for your camera... The clients we all want.) will see this for what it is and you will be exposed as either a deliberate fraud, or an ignoramus. Therefore, that kind of piece is not going to land the best clients. If you have no morals then THAT is why you don't do it. (You know, never mind ID theft and copyright infringement. Those things are for decent people to worry about.)

 

[Joel Kaye]

I agree with Tom. A showreel is to show your work, period.

The same shot is a legitimate reel shot for a lot of people - VFX, Makeup, Props, Art Dept, Costuming, Gaffer, DP, Operator, AC, Colorist, Writer, Director and Producer.

Whew... and if you're a someone that wears several hats do you really put a reel together for each "hat".

I was thinking of doing a reel and specifying my role in the shot with a caption... but that seem like it would be pretty distracting for the viewer.

 

[Curran Giddens]

The same shot is a legitimate reel shot for a lot of people - VFX, Makeup, Props, Art Dept, Costuming, Gaffer, DP, Operator, AC, Colorist, Writer, Director and Producer.

Whew... and if you're a someone that wears several hats do you really put a reel together for each "hat".

I was thinking of doing a reel and specifying my role in the shot with a caption... but that seem like it would be pretty distracting for the viewer.

This is exactly what I was thinking about when I brought it up in another thread.

If the reel contains shots where you performed various roles, maybe it is necessary to include a list of all the shots and your roll for each shot.

 

[Brian F Kobylarz]

The same shot is a legitimate reel shot for a lot of people - VFX, Makeup, Props, Art Dept, Costuming, Gaffer, DP, Operator, AC, Colorist, Writer, Director and Producer.

Whew... and if you're a someone that wears several hats do you really put a reel together for each "hat".

I was thinking of doing a reel and specifying my role in the shot with a caption... but that seem like it would be pretty distracting for the viewer.

Depending on how you put the reel together, it need not be distracting at all.

Group the shots together per discipline - and title appropriately. The viewer is then directed to pay attention to the skill called out - whether it be lighting, camera op, DP, colorist, director. That provides everyone with an honest baseline and a great conversation starter. When it comes down to it, we work in a relatively small industry with long memories. Your reputation is built on the work you do - a single misrepresentation can destroy years of effort.
Everyone knows our end product is, more often than not, a team effort. Take credit for what you have done, give proper credit to others that contributed - and you build respect.
That's a good place to start from since I've found that word of mouth has been more valuable than a reel.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Depending on how you put the reel together, it need not be distracting at all.

Group the shots together per discipline - and title appropriately. The viewer is then directed to pay attention to the skill called out - whether it be lighting, camera op, DP, colorist, director. That provides everyone with an honest baseline and a great conversation starter. When it comes down to it, we work in a relatively small industry with long memories. Your reputation is built on the work you do - a single misrepresentation can destroy years of effort.
Everyone knows our end product is, more often than not, a team effort. Take credit for what you have done, give proper credit to others that contributed - and you build respect.
That's a good place to start from since I've found that word of mouth has been more valuable than a reel.

Yes, it`s very easy.

If I ever caught anyone using a stolen reel, I would blacklist them, for life.

A dishonest person is not someone you want around.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

This is exactly what I was thinking about when I brought it up in another thread.

If the reel contains shots where you performed various roles, maybe it is necessary to include a list of all the shots and your roll for each shot.

This is how most VFX reels work.

You are asked for a reel and a breakdown sheet where you summarize your involvement:

Shot - 03 - Train Crash
Lighting Supervision on sequence and final composite

Shot - 04 - Space Ship Launch
Ship Model and miscellaneous background models

etc etc...

 

[Curran Giddens]

This is how most VFX reels work.
etc etc...

Makes perfect sense.

 

[Nick Burridge]

I'm gonna own up and say I've presented reels comprised of others work to clients before.
Not quite in the way you're thinking however. For the first half of 2009 (I was working for an advertising production company at the time) we had quite a few directors who were interested on shooting on RED, but our clients and their respective agencies had heard RED 'looked digital' or 'was unreliable', or (insert your favourite early-days anti-RED argument here). So I got handed the task of cutting RED reels each time this happened. I would suggest RED's official reel first, but the producer would usually deem it 'too racey' so back to cutting something else. We had few completed RED jobs in our stable at the time, so generally I'd have to cobble together something from cutting down RED's reel, plus our existing material, then whatever other RED projects fit the look/feel of that particular project (I remember putting in clips from 'Knowing' to demonstrate that name actors have been shot on it), etc. Note that we'd never present this as our own work, nor is it being used to actively seek clients - we've already won the job, and were then trying to demonstrate the worth of a particular camera system.

I didn't agree entirely with it all (but as a relatively young newbie in a big multinational prod company you do what you're told), in fact having to repeatedly demonstrate to client after client that RED was 'ok' seemed rather silly. I suspect that if I still worked that job now however that most of my time would be cutting 5dmkII reels instead.