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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

1.8" SSD Module

Jarred Land said:
Correct... mag sticks out.

Brook, top loading anything is horrible.. not only does it restrict rail systems etc. on top of the camera but just begs for moisture.

I do like the E-ink idea.. i have a few WD drives that have them and its great ( when they work ) Too late in the game to add those to these though.
Click to expand...

From a few pages back. Looks like it.
 
For comparison an 8Gb Panasonic P2 card cost $1400 when they first came out 4-5 years ago. They hold about 20 minutes of 720pn (n for native) footage on an HVX200 or 8-10 minutes of 1080p footage, and they are reliable.

Having a 128Gb SSD Mag that costs $1500 certainly seems like a good deal when you consider a professional workload of hundreds of write/read/erase cycles over several years. Yes, the up front cost of having enough Mags to shoot all day long can be a bit painful for those coming from the prosumer side of the market. However, many here have learned from shooting various digital systems (P2, SxS, Red1, etc.) that having enough 100% reliable media on hand is a lot cheaper than having a crew waiting, or not being able to shoot your B camera for half the day because your DIT is backlogged downloading and backing-up.

Jarred, I'd be interested in hearing how fast you guys are offloading data from the 128Gb SSDs, and what you're using as a reference system. Will you be putting out any sort of baseline specs for people along the lines of: "If you're shooting 2 camera at RedCode2:1 you'll need 2 Mags for every 40 minutes of filming per day and an offload system capable of copying xxGb/sec to keep up". I'm sure there will quickly be some rules of thumb with the new tools, care to share what you've learned so far?

[speculation] Any day now I expect a RedRAID array to be announced that will integrate with the Red STATION for reliable high speed offloading. I expect it would use spinning media, but if you make it based on your own 2.5" SSD MAGs, your unit cost per/mag would drop a lot quicker from the increased volume, and we'd have an insanely fast & quiet offloading tool for the set. Surely an expensive tool, but very worth it for many situations. :w00t:
 
Why all the panic about a MAG sticking out? If the shoot demands something more solid, shoot CF cards. Am I the only one shocked by how effin rude people are in RED's house??(save Brook who knows how to bring up a critical discussion in a positive manner)

This team is toiling their asses off to please everyone and (thats impossible) trying to make delivery schedules. This all seems pretty effin nit picky to me and Im sure ET will develop a wrokaround for securing the SSD - but since NONE OF YOU have actually felt and tried the SSD module in the field, can we at least give RED some credit that they are not idiots who mindlessly install options on their cameras?

For a company that specializes in AFFORDABLE PRO DIGITAL CINEMA. Do some of you really think they are ignoring affordable high quality solutions to pimp their own? Really? WOW that's AMAZING.
 
Tim, stating the obvious of the media that you're recording 5k images to sticking out so its in the way of being knocked, bumped and pulled out... is a valid concern IMO

SSD is meant to be the fastest media to record to, aka REDRAM. So having the camera car mounted, on a crane, steadicam or shoulder mounted... I see having the media you're recording too sticking out as a problem. So why would I know speak up about it. Rather now than when the thing gets pulled and you loose a very expensive take + end up breaking something.

Having ET create a workaround... why? when the product is still in development and its an appears to be an obvious fault that needs a solid solution. Why have a work around with bits sticking off to hold other bits when you have a slick module system

I'm sure RED have thought of this... they have only just posted about this tool, so I don't see any thing wrong with asking valid questions which to me, doesn't seem rude or being ungrateful.

RED is a business making professional tools for professionals.
This is after all a discussion forum and I'm pretty sure RED have a workable solution to securing the card, as it must be something they have thought about, its the recording media, which is after all pretty important to the whole process.
 
Hey Rory, I have no issue with you stating it this way Rory. its respectful... but your first post read : "are you serious that the SSD drive just sits out of the camera... waiting to get pulled out or knocked out.... surely RED have thought of this and have a solution the secures the drive in the module... surely
__________________
Rory Hinds"

was a tad knee jerk, and not constructive dont you think? Im not a mod, but I find it amazing that people dont take a second to post something more constructive. Or maybe even ask Jarred what he thinks about its solidity, since again, none of us have tried this yet. Thats all Im saying. cheers
 
sorry I'll try be more diplomatic in how I word things, I guess my "english straight to the point" doesn't cross over the pond well with the US.

I think we all want a professional tool that supersedes the R1 in many ways, most importantly in form factor and ergonomics. This is the first we are seeing about how Epic will interface with data recording apart from the CF.

I'm sure a lot of people on anxious to find out the details of how secure recording is going to be, its an important step in the chain that to producers is a very very big deal.
 
Round and Round we go team?

Hehe, Sorry for bring this up. Again.

I hope the 1.8 SSD Option as Side Module would solved all these issues right?

I pray to who ever is listening.

:)

Michael T.

:beatdeadhorse5:

P. S. Just like when I said that we should have Histogram on the REDmote many people said it was impossible. This one is also very possible. ;)
 
Tim Whitcomb said:
This team is toiling their asses off to please everyone and (thats impossible) trying to make delivery schedules. This all seems pretty effin nit picky to me and Im sure ET will develop a wrokaround for securing the SSD - but since NONE OF YOU have actually felt and tried the SSD module in the field, can we at least give RED some credit that they are not idiots who mindlessly install options on their cameras?

For a company that specializes in AFFORDABLE PRO DIGITAL CINEMA. Do some of you really think they are ignoring affordable high quality solutions to pimp their own? Really? WOW that's AMAZING.
Click to expand...

We nit pick because we care. Clearly most of us, even those that occasionally make suggestions for improvements for in-development components, are highly interested in RED's products. I have no doubt that some may overestimate the genius of their own ideas or concerns, but then again some of these ideas may actually be of help to RED.

As Rory said, this is a discussion forum after all. I am certain that not as many people would participate and not as much would be learned if this forum consisted only of RED displaying their products and everyone congratulating them on it. Would you have us all just speak obsequiously about REDs cameras? That would certainly be boring. I also doubt RED would be quite so good at making cameras without open discussion of products perceived flaws on this forum, though they would likely still be pretty successful on their own without our "feedback".

I'm pretty sure the people at RED are smart enough that they don't need our constant validation and are not too hurt by any nit picking. The past and future sales numbers of their cameras should validate them quite well. And no doubt they get a fair bit of praise on this forum :p .
 
I think the distance the SSD is sticking out will look much shorter in person. The Epic somehow always looks bigger in pictures. Those of you who saw it in person on RED Day know that the Epic is actually pretty small. Based on what I am remembering about size I would guestimate that the SSD only sticks out about 1/2 an inch.
 
Noah- why do you and others take the low road in replying to my desire to have more constructive criticism? All you are doing is proving my point that some of you need to learn some manners- this is NOT DVX user. Lots of pros on here find positive ways to nit pick... for the last time its not WHAT is being asked. its HOW its being asked. This is not OUR forum, its RED's, and we are guests, just trying to help some people remember that.
 
Brook Willard said:
A write-protect switch![!!!!!!]
Click to expand...

If its too late for that, use my horribly low tech device: Lockable bread box. Or how do you call those plastic boxes for school lunch?

Been using them with my cf cards for ages, Never had an accident.

Jochen
 
Ok seriously, what are you guys doing with your cameras that this would be in danger of being broken or removed? I've been around motion picture cameras for a decade and every single one of them has things sticking out of them, and everybody deals just fine with that, why is it a huge deal now when a REDMAG sticks out a very small amount of its overall length, I can honestly not think of a situation that it would be in danger.
 
You guys are reading too much into this.. there are a few things you havn't seen yet.

Don't worry.. we don't take offense to you guys that offer valid concern and suggestions . We went through this once already with the CF card sticking out on the RED ONE... people thought it sticking out was the end of the world. Kinda like the whole Optical Viewfinder debacle.

All I can ask is that you guys reserve judgement until it's in your hands and you use it when its in production.
 
Remember that quite often, when Red posts images or specs like this ahead of time, it's specifically to get users' input. That's what open development is all about and it has been working quite well thus far I'd say. I find it great that experienced camera assistants come on this board and voice their opinions and concerns. We all benefit from it, Red included of course.
 
It's pretty nice and safe to watch EPIC development from the Stage 4 time distance.

But I'm always ready to make some of suggestions and also

with that try not to bother anyone from the future EPIC users or even RED Team.

So what's up now?

It's about EPIC SSD 1.8 media module (with the fastest media on the planet) ruggedness, reliability and safety of

our future EPIC 5K shots (especially at varispeed and time-lapse shooting situations).


First let's have a look how the competition deals with the similar media modules and try maybe to learn something out of it:




1A. ARRI (Alexa):

Alexa_media_01.jpg

This picture shows where Arri Alexa holds Sony SS cards for ProRes recoding.

Alexa_media_02.jpg

This picture shows how Arri Alexa protect those media cards with a special designed doors to lock them safely...


LINK>>>



Alexa_media_03.jpg

This Arri Alexa Brochure page 14 wrote that:

Alexa will never stop shooting before you do.

That can be really true because Arri Allexa with that sort of build-in locked doors for media
cards really cares how to protect media recordings from any sort of damage or influence from outside...




2B. Aaton Penelope ∆ (Delta)

AatonD_media_01.jpg

Aaton's Martine Bianco talks about the new Penelope ∆ SSD media...

AatonD_media_02.jpg

Aaton's Martine Bianco talks about the new Penelope ∆ SSD media
that she just safely pulled and locked it inside of Penelope ∆ digital back.

LINK>>>




How it will look with Epic?

RED_SSD1-8_media_01.jpg

From this picture posted by Jarred EPIC's SSD 1.8 media is a half out from the body.

Of course I could be totally wrong here but how it is presented at the picture above doesn't look safe and protected enough.

How?

Let's talk about two possible scenarios:

A: I'm shooting "Burning Man" in Nevada's desert and suddenly desert storm happened and camera suddenly stopped to record
just because some of a small dust pieces were entered inside and interrupted my recording.

B: I'm shooting in Borneo or Amazon Jungle a long time-lapse scene overnight and suddenly recording stopped just because some of
insects (ants), worms or even a drop of water made by high level of humidity in the air entered inside of the cam and interrupted my recording.

There are just two possible scenarios of interrupted shots or recording when media (module) is not protected enough safely inside of the cam from the beginning on.
 
Simple solution have an o-ring that seals the redmag and the slot together.
Or just have the entire slot be sealed inside just leaving the connector exposed, thus all that would need to be done in extreme shooting areas would be to blow out the slot now and then with some compressed air.
Or have both for total security. Both could be fitted even if the design is in its final stages.
 
While it's not ideal, personally I don't see the sticking out thing being that huge an issue - it's such a thin-profile camera, realistically you'll probably hit the mattebox / follow focus / pistol grip/handheld bars etc before getting anywhere near the SSD ("Take 2"!! :001_rolleyes:).

It's maybe not as elegant a design as the Penelope (I love the way that drive slides out!) and the Alexa (however that mag "door" does seem like slight overkill for protecting the media - is it meant to make people nostalgic for film camera doors? :thumbsup:).

Will the 2.5" RedMag stick out the same distance as the 1.8" or even more? Sorry if this has been covered already but do you need separate modules for the 1.8" and 2.5" RedMags or does one module fit all?
 
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