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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Hurt Locker producers are gunning for pirates

Erik Franzén said:
You can call it what you want. The wording of the law (which you seem keen on reminding us of) disagrees with you; it's copyright infringement. But you are free to call it what you want, as I am free to disagree with your definition of what constitutes a "theft".:sifone:
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You are right, Erik.

Whenever I hear downloaders or copyright-infringers being called "thieves" or "pirates", I'm reminded of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, where Humpty Dumpty says “words mean what I choose them to mean”.

So I decided that as long as the film companies are calling downloaders "pirates", then I will call the employees of film companies "paedophiles".
 
I think everyone should chillax and watch THIS. :)
 
I would love to see what would happen if you COPIED sensitive data from a government agency. Would they call it theft or copyright infingement? What would you call it?
 
Erik Franzén said:
I think everyone should chillax and watch THIS. :)
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Cute.

Whether or not the legal definition of theft is broad enough to include Copyright Infringement is beyond me; I'm not a barrister. I do know that the question is mute, practically speaking.

We all know that duplicating property over which a copyright is asserted is unlawful, the charge is criminal, and if a court finds you guilty of it the penalties are both real and potentially severe. To me that is all that matters.
 
Piracy debate here! Jokes not accepted...

Piracy debate here! Jokes not accepted...

The charge is actually civil as long as it's copyright infringement. But I won't be quoted on that, since I am just hastily trying to remind myself of things from social science class.

And guys, before you gun for my head - think about this for a second; do I look like a guy who gives a damn? I was trying to derail an overly serious topic away from getting locked and/or end up like the House thread by posting a link to (what I consider to be) a joke.
Gosh, I guess someone got it right when they said that sarcasm is sure lost on the internet... :rolleyes5:

:rant:

As for my actual opinion? Full disclosure? I am a filmmaker (up and coming, not even close to established), Pretty young by most standards (never lost my home or gotten crap load of money lost due to the powers that be) and I don't pay my own rent. So yes, I'd be the perfect example of people who pirate.

I do admit, I've infringed on copyright many times. In the last three years, despite what I just told you, I've pirated nothing at all that I didn't pay for first - or payed for after I watched a pirated copy, even if the material completely sucked. Not without muttering and a lot of head-bashing, yes, but still with cash. Hell, I even went to my favorite movie store to do so - guess that makes me one of a few who still does.
The times I didn't do this are few and far; and all of them were before I hardly understood the wording of the law more carefully, and when I was around - oh, let's say - eleven years old. So, hardly a prime example of a pirate - and I sincerely doubt they'd care if only eleven years old pirated.

That might not make a lot of sense, but it does. See, I like the idea behind the law. It's a nice concept. Unfortunately, whoever decided that corporations have the right to sue for an enormous, imagined and "perceived" loss was balls-fucking crazy. That sort of stuff can kill a persons economy. And NO don't even dare throw up some vindictive "they've earned it" mentality in my face. If they'd done something horrible to you, then yes - they'd earned it. But we're talking about a punishment that essentially puts the boot of the law to use in a way that holds one person or a small group of people responsible for the every action taken by an entire group of pirates who pirated a certain movie. That, fellow filmmakers, is disgusting - revenue lost or not.

Wanna charge someone for them stealing stuff from you? Do it. Go ahead, find a way to break the piracy model down. But do it without stepping on people's lives in such drastic measures and attempt to sue them for all they have just so you can feel good about yourself for finding "justice". No, don't go cheering for the prick who is suing otherwise good people and holding everyone he can find responsible for actions taken in a way that allows a corporation - or an individual - to fester on other people's money to such a drastic degree.
A lost sale vs. a life...no argument for me.

Bottom line: I don't support piracy. I never will. Never can. I also don't support corporate a-hole law-rulings and will scream ad nausea about how bad they are until your ears bleed to DEATH. Occasionally, I download a copy of something because of how impotent the current distribution model is with my particular country (Sweden) receiving every gorram movie a frakkin year later then everyone else do! Finally, what I pirate -- I PAY for. Piracy is a last resort for me, and I don't particularly enjoy using it. But when I can't even get a movie to download when I WANT to pay for it and there simple exists no copy that can be downloaded in my region, well, geez....

This has to get better. :banghead:

EDIT: And as for the separate morality debate. I won't even answer whether people (youngsters) have less morals then previous generations. I do, however, find it almost criminally insulting to suggest NO-ONE has any morals nowadays. That's just not true. I'll only speak for myself, but there does fundamentally exist some morals most human beings abide by. I believe in the law to a high degree, but I learned even in my early years that abiding by the law to the letter is just as dangerous as ignoring the law altogether! These two mentalities are generally found in the stakeholders -- those who have something to lose -- or misguided idealists.
I won't speak for my morals (as I already have), but stealing, murder, rape and any criminal charge that has been agreed upon should be considered wrong. As I see it, if you disagree you get two options:
A) Abide by the ruling of the law until you, or someone else, change the legislation
or...
B) Break the law, knowing that if you get caught you will be punished to the full extent possible.

There are only two things I truly get disgusted over in my mind about the law: those who defend laws who have obviously been put through legislation by corrupt and/or "motivated" bureaucratically powered individuals who loves the lobbying system and misuses it for their own bloody purposes, and the idiots who break the law without considering the ramifications of such actions and have taken no action to help change the law.

Oh, and finally, I reserve the right to have you change my mind about all of this. :beer:
 
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Moral's aside, the P2P (torrents, etc) community represents a lost opportunity to the film & music entertainment industry, but unfortunately (unless your a lawyer) the P2P scene is perceived as a loss to the bottom line.

Here in Canada when I buy an iPod or CD/DVD I support the creative industry through tariffs. Even when I use that for legal non-copyright-infringing content.

Personally I have been exposed to more and internationally varied content that I would have been able to afford to do so.

I think/know there are ways to leverage P2P to benifit everyone. Currently members of the RIAA&MPAA datamine the P2P scene and use this information to track content approval. This is a service provided by pirates, and its thankless (other than the free content).

People need to ask more than anything in this whole conundrum... Why do people pirate media? Is it price, convenience, availability (region), or whatever???

Will the next Tarantino learn about film not renting VHS but watching DVD rips?
 
Erik Franzén said:
The charge is actually civil as long as it's copyright infringement.
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http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html

See 506. Criminal Offenses http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#506

§ 506. Criminal offenses6

(a) Criminal Infringement. —

(1) In general. — Any person who willfully infringes a copyright shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, if the infringement was committed —

(A) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain;

(B) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000; or

(C) by the distribution of a work being prepared for commercial distribution, by making it available on a computer network accessible to members of the public, if such person knew or should have known that the work was intended for commercial distribution.
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Seeding approximately 50 film torrents in six months would be criminal, if I read this right.
 
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Zack Birlew said:
I hope they do figure something out, it'll be a sad day when movies have to be sold for $1 a pop like music.
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But isn't that kinda already happening on Netflix. There are a lot of streaming videos. How do those royalties work? How are indie filmmakers ever going to get paid?

If bandwidth was cheaper and faster I could see a $2 movie download. A 10 million downloads is money. Redbox is $1 per rental - so that's the world we're living in.

Isn't it weird how people will pay a buck for a 3 minute song but won't pay $3 for a movie? The sad reality is it might be more profitable to sell music these days.

And why aren't indie movies and music sold like indie Apps? It isn't a technology problem.
 
Joel Kaye said:
How do those royalties work?

How are indie filmmakers ever going to get paid?

If bandwidth was cheaper and faster I could see a $2 movie download. A 10 million downloads is money. Redbox is $1 per rental - so that's the world we're living in.

Isn't it weird how people will pay a buck for a 3 minute song but won't pay $3 for a movie? The sad reality is it might be more profitable to sell music these days.

And why aren't indie movies and music sold like indie Apps? It isn't a technology problem.
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How do you want to make the royalties work? If an internet tv "network" collects a small, say $2.00, monthly charge and divides it among its channel/content producers, would that be cool? What if the network also sold advertising for your content and people could watch it free, but pay with their eyeballs?


Bandwidth is cheap. It costs about 10 cents to upload a gig of data from a CDN when your pushing large amounts of content (bulk deal). That means you can e-distribute a movie in HD for under a buck, and the customer can download it in less time than it takes to a pizza to be delivered.

Why is the right question? Maybe because the "old school" is still powerful and entrenched in its antiquated ways.
 
Antony M said:
I bought Hurt Locker on Bluray...

and the damn thing wouldn't play on my BluRay player (Sharp Aquos).

If I had downloaded it for free, presumably I would have been able to watch it on my PC!!!!
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What If you had bought a digital download cheaper... If somehow you had problem with the file you'd contact support and get a new link/file pretty fast.

Film distribution is losing to piracy (and other VOD services as stated) because they are staying old fashioned.

You can't ignore the evolving market and try to protect yourself with lame law suits.
 
noahvolek said:
Moral's aside, the P2P (torrents, etc) community represents a lost opportunity to the film & music entertainment industry, but unfortunately (unless your a lawyer) the P2P scene is perceived as a loss to the bottom line.

Here in Canada when I buy an iPod or CD/DVD I support the creative industry through tariffs. Even when I use that for legal non-copyright-infringing content.

Personally I have been exposed to more and internationally varied content that I would have been able to afford to do so.

I think/know there are ways to leverage P2P to benifit everyone. Currently members of the RIAA&MPAA datamine the P2P scene and use this information to track content approval. This is a service provided by pirates, and its thankless (other than the free content).

People need to ask more than anything in this whole conundrum... Why do people pirate media? Is it price, convenience, availability (region), or whatever???

Will the next Tarantino learn about film not renting VHS but watching DVD rips?
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a lot of things are on line that you cant watch any where else .. i know that isnt the point but you cant watch Top Gear in the USA but its online same thing with some grand prix races and other sports


how can you fell bad about that when there no legitimate ways to watch these programs??
 
Joel Kaye said:
Isn't it weird how people will pay a buck for a 3 minute song but won't pay $3 for a movie? The sad reality is it might be more profitable to sell music these days.
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It's not really weird. I will listen to a good song literally hundreds of times.

It is very rare for me to watch a film more than once.
 
Rick Burnett said:
Where are movies $3 dollars?
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Well across the boarder in Malaysia I could get you some if you'd like haha,

jokes aside though, they make more money by doing these law suits then not, there was an article i remember seeing that it's more feasible for them to earn more from these law suits on P2P users then the inital sales, obviously as one can tell since it starts at 1.5K and goes all the way to 150K or more depending...

Agreed that the only way to stop this is to cut the price down the whole way, if you think about it, $5 for BluRay and $10 for new releases sort of kills the thought "hmm maybe I'll download it" instead of just buying it,

Other thing though is some people download etc. because the release tends to be delayed for a while,
I ended up getting Wall Street earlier then the UK release because the BluRay was already out in the states but it's still shown as "coming soon" in the UK. Similarly there isn't a "one stop shop" kind of thing where you can find EVERY BluRay ever made, including rare ones in some countries, so its more feasible for people to download those rare ones in some cases...

Just my 2cents
 
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