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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)

It's a question that you would spend 5000$ Recorder with 600$ Mic and 500 lavs

Or 600 recorder with 1500 proper mic with 5000$ lavs set

I would choose zoom f4 in this case.

Mic is more important than recorder these days. The gap between SD and others are fairly close more and more.

But the gap between high end mica and cheap one is huge.

That's my take
 
After looking a bit at the F8 and F4 I would I would pick the F8 and the main reason is actually the screen. Its just much easier to see when things are RED when they are.. well red :)
Dont think I will need 8 channels, but 5 and 6 I have had uses for in the past.

/Andreas
 
Marc Wielage said:
...What's sad to me is that there are a lot of people in this thread who paid upwards of $30,000 or $40,000 for cameras plus another $20,000+ for lenses and mounts... and they're arguing whether they should spend $600 or $2000 for a sound recorder/mixer...
Click to expand...

When I got into film production this was so true...sad but true.

I come from the music side of things and it baffles me when I'm about to go into production and find the audio production low on the "want" and "needs".

Now mind you, we used an SD 744T on a feature two years ago and they still had to ADR 90% of the project.

This time it wasn't the tech mostly human error.

One being the audio personnel and the ones above him that didn't bother to check on things.

I am currently looking for something like the Z4 and will wait a little after NAB to see where it stands against the others.

Till then I have access to an SD at any time.
 
Marc Wielage said:
What's sad to me is that there are a lot of people in this thread who paid upwards of $30,000 or $40,000 for cameras plus another $20,000+ for lenses and mounts... and they're arguing whether they should spend $600 or $2000 for a sound recorder/mixer. To me, putting only 10% of the production budget into sound, after spending $60,000+ on camera gear, is too low. You can't get 4 wireless systems and a boom and a multitrack sound recorder and batteries and a timecode slate for $6000... and on a big show, you'd need three times this much gear (or more). It's ludicrous to me that people have such a skewed sense of what sound gear is really worth.
Click to expand...


**Hopefully**, the reason for this vast gulf in difference is because 95%+ of the people on reduser are camera department, and *NOT* sound department. But they're often in situations where they're one man crews, so need some way to handle audio in a basic way. But of course on any bigger production with crew, then they're getting in a professional sound recordist with his own gear.

Although I'm afraid there is probably also a good chunk of people who blew $20K on camera gear, then realised OOPS we forgot about audio! Yet they're broke by now, so need to scrape by with whatever they can manage :-/

Eric Santiago said:
I am currently looking for something like the Z4 and will wait a little after NAB to see where it stands against the others.
Click to expand...

Smart idea! As a little birdy tells me Tascam will be releasing something fantastic to beat the F8 ;-)
 
David Peterson said:
Smart idea! As a little birdy tells me Tascam will be releasing something fantastic to beat the F8 ;-)
Click to expand...


Oooh intrigued :)

I checked out the F8 at local music store.

Seems rugged enough but would need to field test it against the SD 744T.
 
I'm not so keen on the seven hundred series recorders. As you really want to have a mixer in front of it. Which then means increased cost and bulk.

Mixer/recorders are the way of the future! Such as a Zoom F4 or Sound Devices 633.


My plan is to keep on chugging along with my Sound Devices 552 / Tascam DR680 until Tascam announces whatever they'll announce.... unless I either give in to temptation and buy a Zoom F4 on the cheap, or get lucky and have saved enough for a Sound Devices 633.
 
I just wanted to note something between the Zoom F8 and the Zoom F4. I had access to a F8 for a number of projects last year and the main outs (mini-XLR) and sub outs (3.5mm) were both switchable between mic and line level -10dbV/-40dbV. I recently acquired a Zoom F4 to use with my recently acquired Epic-X and I realize that the Zoom F4 main outs (full size-XLR) are -10dbV non-switchable, and only the sub outs 3.5mm are -10dbV/-40dbV switchable. I had anticipated that I was going to use a standard XLR cable into a wooden A-box to forgo any need for adapters, but since it can't take line level, it isn't as simple to use without concocting something via the 3.5mm output.

If any else already wired this up, please let me know your workflow.

Just a few observations for those considering.

Pros (so far)
+Build Quality Better than F8
+Larger Physical Controls
+Better Battery Life (10/6/2 on the F8 vs 11.5/10.5/3.5)
+Full Size XLR
+Return Audio (I also shoot with Canon, Sony and Panasonic)

Cons (so far)
-SD Slots in the rear hidden behind battery door (can't access in a bag)
-Main Outs are only -10dBV
-Much smaller screen and monochrome and has a very slow refresh rate
-Included Hirose adapter has a built in ferrite core which allows you to plug in your barrel adapter and snap the interconnect closed. I broke both clips in 10mins. Lots of duct tape expected
-Marginally heavier than the F8 with less inputs
-No Slate Mic
-No Bluetooth
 
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Akin A said:
I haven't used timecode yet, so for those using the timecode feature of the F4/F8, are you using this cable?:
3BNC-TO-00 SYNC CABLE
http://www.red.com/store/products/3bnc-to-00-lemo-sync-cable
The manual says that cable is required, but are there other options?

And do you simply follow these instructions and everything is ready?
Click to expand...



https://www.amazon.com/Nor1438-Cable-Timecode-adapter-Scarlet/dp/B01D2CZMNM/

There is a direct solution. You can use this cable for $32, goes from BNC (Zoom F4 TC out) to 00-Lemo 4 pin (RED Timecode In)
 
I'm curious if the Zoom F4/F8 has potential to produce usable audio (if needed), in-camera, on DSMC1, as many people have mentioned you get from higher end mixers (as long as the Epic's gain is not boosted).

How has that been for you guys?

Also, I've been digging through old threads about the 3.5mm TRS issues with the Epic body that caused so much incompatibility.
Is this something that I have to consider when buying a basic 3.5mm to 3.5mm TRS cable to connect from the F4's SUB OUT to the Epic's MIC-1?
 
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Akin A said:
I'm curious if the Zoom F4/F8 has potential to produce usable audio (if needed), in-camera, on DSMC1, as many people have mentioned you get from higher end mixers (as long as the Epic's gain is not boosted).

How has that been for you guys?

Also, I've been digging through old threads about the 3.5mm TRS issues with the Epic body that caused so much incompatibility.
Is this something that I have to consider when buying a basic 3.5mm to 3.5mm TRS cable to connect from the F4's SUB OUT to the Epic's MIC-1?
Click to expand...

I would not recommend this approach to recording audio, but yes, you could get roughly as good audio this way as say hooking up with a Sound Devices 302. Any small differences between the two approaches would be overshadowed by using a RED
 
David Peterson said:
I would not recommend this approach to recording audio, but yes, you could get roughly as good audio this way as say hooking up with a Sound Devices 302. Any small differences between the two approaches would be overshadowed by using a RED
Click to expand...
Thanks, David.

I've been debating over MixPre-3/6 and Zoom F4/8 for the past week, dedicating way more time researching than I expected, lol.

I've decided on Zoom F4.

Edit:
I changed my mind. I've decided on a MixPre instead.
Timecode-out isn't as important to me as I initially thought, since I'll always be running the recorded sound back into the camera to check the playback anyway, so wave form syncing should be reliable coming from the same mic.
So the analogue limiters and a better quality headphone output as an audio interface give the MixPre the advantage for me.
 
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David Peterson said:
**Hopefully**, the reason for this vast gulf in difference is because 95%+ of the people on reduser are camera department, and *NOT* sound department. But they're often in situations where they're one man crews, so need some way to handle audio in a basic way. But of course on any bigger production with crew, then they're getting in a professional sound recordist with his own gear.

Although I'm afraid there is probably also a good chunk of people who blew $20K on camera gear, then realised OOPS we forgot about audio! Yet they're broke by now, so need to scrape by with whatever they can manage :-/



Smart idea! As a little birdy tells me Tascam will be releasing something fantastic to beat the F8 ;-)
Click to expand...

Hoping you will start a thread here when that happens. Long time user of Tascam recorders
 
Akin A said:
Thanks, David.

I've been debating over MixPre-3/6 and Zoom F4/8 for the past week, dedicating way more time researching than I expected, lol.

I've decided on Zoom F4.
Click to expand...
]
Good choice!! (but they're all great) Is my pick too. I'm starting in a couple of days an entire feature film with just the F4
 
I recently picked up an F4 along with a single Tentacle Sync. According to Curtis Judd's video, this should be enough to hold timecode well enough for my needs.

Timecode is something I've been needing for a long time. Having never really worked with timecode before, I can tell this is going to make editing so much more enjoyable (I hate manually syncing...). I need to test this to be sure, so I won't comment on how long they stay synced lasts until I have a few days working with it myself.

The only con for me is the size of the gain knobs. I'll be picking up a few 3D printed knobs from EFKsound3D to hopefully rectify that. It's no deal breaker and it's something I can absolutely work with otherwise.
 
Mark Spraker said:
I recently picked up an F4 along with a single Tentacle Sync. According to Curtis Judd's video, this should be enough to hold timecode well enough for my needs.

Timecode is something I've been needing for a long time. Having never really worked with timecode before, I can tell this is going to make editing so much more enjoyable (I hate manually syncing...). I need to test this to be sure, so I won't comment on how long they stay synced lasts until I have a few days working with it myself.

The only con for me is the size of the gain knobs. I'll be picking up a few 3D printed knobs from EFKsound3D to hopefully rectify that. It's no deal breaker and it's something I can absolutely work with otherwise.
Click to expand...

Mark,

That tentacle setup looks awesome! Could you DM me and lemme know how it works out with your F4 and camera?
 
Mark, if you only have one Tentacle Sync then make sure you NEVER TURN OFF the Zoom F4.

And if you do turn it off, then you need to rejam. Essential.

But if you make sure you do this, and set it up right, then you should stay in sync all day long. (but rejam at lunch anyway, just to be safe)

Also, if any one is is buying time code boxes today in 2017, I suggest going with Ultrasync ONE instead, as this is a crazy insanely good deal:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...ystems_tcb_wave_usonebundle_1_wave_and_2.html
 
David,

Any reason(s) in particular you fancy the Ultrasync ONE over the Tentacle Sync?
 
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