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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Zone Plate 7D

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Jim & Co., I can't believe how calmly y'all defend yourself . . . consistently!

Could someone explain (in laymen's terms) what a zone plate is, what line-skipping is, and what this test demonstrates? Most of my knowledge of terms and lingo comes from personal experience and it's never involved any of this stuff.
 
Danish P.V. said:
Stop kidding dude...real name - now! We need a copy of your birth certificate, driver`s license and passport... :D
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And "Danish" is your real name? :lol: :001_unsure:
 
1st... the 7D is an EXCELLENT stills camera. Worth the money for that alone.

2nd. I think everyone knows that line-skipping motion is probably not good... but not sure exactly why or how much.

A zone plate is a precision chart that has a bunch of calibrated circles (as you can see) in monochrome, red, green and blue... to stress test the resolution capabilities of a camera and see where it falls down, like aliasing and moire... or until it just can't resolve the detail.

Because the sensors in the DSLRs are not really 24fps capable, they skip lines when they read the sensor so they can go faster. Fast enough to get to 24fps. So, for example, a sensor that does 6fps can only record 24fps if it reads every 4th line (from top to bottom). That leaves gaps in the information, which you can see on the chart or anything with high detail. If you shoot a finely patterned shirt, for example, you will get moire. If you shoot a brick wall, you might get artifacts that show up with motion.

Hope that helps.

Jim
 
Posts like this don't solve much. We all know Red has better imaging tech for the price.
Canon 7D (which I bought the week after the Scarlets shipping dates where announced. There is just so long a body can wait) is available now.
Scarlet's still... what.... six/seven months away???
I can't believe how many 7Ds I see around the place.
Everyone is talking Red.
Everyone is buying Canon.
 
Jason Ramsey said:
Check out this thread, starting around this page, and you will find some info on the calibration issue. As Jim stated in the linked thread, a fix is forthcoming:

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=547005#post547005
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Thanks, Jim explained it there two weeks ago "The calibration error is very small at normal exposures (can't be seen)"

I dont' think that zone plates were overexposed.

Is't it high contrast fine detail problem?

I wonder when it will be solved.
 
DaveT said:
Posts like this don't solve much. We all know Red has better imaging tech for the price.
Canon 7D (which I bought the week after the Scarlets shipping dates where announced. There is just so long a body can wait) is available now.
Scarlet's still... what.... six/seven months away???
I can't believe how many 7Ds I see around the place.
Everyone is talking Red.
Everyone is buying Canon.
Click to expand...

Not exactly sure what the point is...

Before "everyone" was buying a 7D, they were buying a 5D. Before that they were buying an HVX 200... a DVX100. A Sony Handycam... and on.

Pros were shooting film... and Genesis, and a Sony 900. And a RED ONE.

Buy what you like when it is available. Just because "everyone is buying a 7D" doesn't mean we will finish Scarlet any sooner. Good for Canon. They have sold 20 trillion cameras before we ever started in business. But it doesn't make a 7D a pro tool for motion.

Jim
 
Laco Zamba said:
Thanks, Jim explained it there two weeks ago "The calibration error is very small at normal exposures (can't be seen)"

I dont' think that zone plates were overexposed.

Is't it high contrast fine detail problem?

I wonder when it will be solved.
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No... I think we'll just let this one pass.

Seriously, this is a brand new sensor that is amazing. It took us two and a half years to get the M sensor working at its best. I think another month and we'll have this sensor under control.

Jim
 
Jim, let me take a stab at this. Jim is NOT saying the 7D is bad. Jim IS saying the 7D is good. Jim is NOT arguing that the you or anyone else should NOT buy a 7D. Jim is merely revealing the results of a test that none of us have done with the 3 sensors, and I feel it gives us RedUsers more information to base our own personal decisions. I like facts and information, thanks Jim.
 
Joe Taylor said:
Not that it really matters since this is all about electronic cinema, but how do the 5D and 7D perform with the zone plate test when shooting in still mode? Some of us do a lot of time-lapse with DSLR's and when shooting still-frame intervals our work in effect becomes cinema. My concern has always been how well it will cut together with the Red.
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If all your doing is shooting RAW image sequences on your 5D2 or 7D then it will match well with the RED footage. I've shot a lot of TL on both my RED and 5D2. Granted I use the cameras for different applications. I use the 5D2 at night for long shutter exposures and use my RED One to capture TL during the day/dusk. Of course things will change once Epic comes out because that will become my primary day and night timelapse camera, along with my RED One. I'll hang on to my 5D2 just incase I need a second nigh time camera going.
 
Jannard said:
Before "everyone" was buying a 7D, they were buying a 5D. Before that they were buying an HVX 200... a DVX100. A Sony Handycam... and on.

Pros were shooting film... and Genesis, and a Sony 900. And a RED ONE.
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So, anyone not shooting film or genesis etc is an amateur? I find that attitude perplexing. I'm a pro, have been for more than 25 years. I work with film and everything else. My level of skill, knowledge or creativity doesn't change with the choice of camera or budget or anything else.

My clients don't care about zone plates, pixel binning or any of the other aspects of digital production that we all get hot and bothered about. They only care if their job looks great and is delivered on budget and on time.

I know all about the 7D's failings, as does everyone here, but we also know if handled with care it can produce a great image for many situations.

Oddly enough, the proliferation of 5Ds and 7Ds is exciting my clients to new ways of working with new creative possibilities; they understand these cameras are a cheat, but I've got them hooked and it will make it far easier for them to embrace Epic/Scarlet when they finally hit the streets.

I can only think folks are still pumped from Red Day and that normal service and good manners will resume around here sometime soon.

Happy shooting and best wishes,

Liam.
 
Jannard said:
Not exactly sure what the point is...

Before "everyone" was buying a 7D, they were buying a 5D. Before that they were buying an HVX 200... a DVX100. A Sony Handycam... and on.

Pros were shooting film... and Genesis, and a Sony 900. And a RED ONE.
Jim
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I just have a 5D now, and before, I had bought an HVX 200, a DVX100... It's for TV works, not for cinema end.
For my pro cinema shorts films I'd been used Sony 900 (with LP adap.) and now RED.

I'm one of them!!!

But, thanks to my 5D, now I've several Canon FF35 2.8 lenses that have provided me choose to buy a Scarlett S35 with Canon Mount instead of a Scarlett 2/3... And it'll be my first CINEMA CAMERA.

May be it's a tech-war between companies but I think that It's a paradise for the customers. Not all people works for cinema ends, every one has his own needs. It'll be insane to make a short youtube-speech video with an EPIC FF35, as to make 'The book of Eli' with a pair of 7D. As a customer, if I have more options, I could take a more accurate choice.
 
Liam Hall said:
So, anyone not shooting film or genesis etc is an amateur? I find that attitude perplexing. I'm a pro, have been for more than 25 years. I work with film and everything else. My level of skill, knowledge or creativity doesn't change with the choice of camera or budget or anything else.

My clients don't care about zone plates, pixel binning or any of the other aspects of digital production that we all get hot and bothered about. They only care if their job looks great and is delivered on budget and on time.

I know all about the 7D's failings, as does everyone here, but we also know if handled with care it can produce a great image for many situations.

Oddly enough, the proliferation of 5Ds and 7Ds is exciting my clients to new ways of working with new creative possibilities; they understand these cameras are a cheat, but I've got them hooked and it will make it far easier for them to embrace Epic/Scarlet when they finally hit the streets.

I can only think folks are still pumped from Red Day and that normal service and good manners will resume around here sometime soon.

Happy shooting and best wishes,

Liam.
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Liam... reasonable point. I probably could have said it better. I guess the proliferation of mis-information about what the DSLRs can and can't do triggered a bit of frustration. I just believe that "good enough" isn't a professional mindset.

Jim
 
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