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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Zeiss or Xeen

Carl Epstein said:
Great comments. It seems everyone is very passionate about lenses. So the camera is just the vehicle and the glass is where the personality comes in. I wasn't thinking I would spend as much as the Scarlet W or more on the glass. lol
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Carl, Welcome to the club! Somebody once said "Cameras don't make pictures. Lenses do. Cameras just record them." Or something like that......
 
The only decent thing on the Xeen is the price, the "newer" coating I've noticed pretty much just prevents the lens from flaring as much-but has the same optical "quality" of the standard Rokinons... which are at the bottom of the food chain.
CP2's are pretty decent, but compared to the Canon CN-E's to me at least aren't as sharp.

At that price point and if you're going for the "sharpest" glass I'd recommend the Zeiss Otus. As far as sharpness they seem fairly close to a Master Prime, but then again it's a stills lens, but at least has a fairly large focus throw since it's a manual focus lens. And if you go for the Nikon mount the aperture can be declicked.
Phil Holland shot his 'Forged' short with this glass and it looks amazing in 4k-just wish there was an 8k version of it ;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmIObGZDjew
 
I have never liked the CP.2s as a matter of personal taste. More critically, I find they are far from a matched set in terms of geometry, color and widest stop.

The Zeiss Otus line is what I'm looking at to replace my RedProPrimes. I like the RPP's overall, but they're big suckers and won't cover 8K. Have not shot with the Xeens, but based on the comments in this thread, it might be just as well.

From what I've gathered, the Milvus line from Zeiss is very similar to the Otus line in design - but the Otus offers better color accuracy. Does anyone know if one could just shoot on the Milvus (much lower cost) and then "fix" the color rendition in RAW development? Any insight would be appreciated.

FWIW, the Schneider Xenon FF primes are my reference point. They're a little large, but they are actual Cine lenses for $4K a pop (the 25MM is $5,750 list) that should cover 8K. Anything I've seen that's significantly better is far more expensive, everything cheaper has more compromises (IMO).

Cheers - #19
 
Well my concern with still glass vs cp2 like entry level pl is focus pulls.. I'm going to test some different stuff for 8k before I commit to any sets. One in particular I'm interested in is Leica
 
I'm willing to pay for a combination of proper mechanics and MTF and resolving power and if you can hold great micro-contrast I'm in love. ATM, most of the top end prime sets (UPs/MPs/S4's/S5s/Leica Cs) and Angie Zooms are for Super35, not FF and not VV. To get the optical performance I'm seeking with 21MM x 41MM coverage, I'm assuming I'll have to live with sub-optimal mechanics. Pulls via servo (internal to the barrel or via external motor/gear combo) are another possibility as sophisticated microprocessor based solutions keep filtering deeper into our industry infrastructure.

If you don't have coverage issues then there are plenty of terrific options out there that can fill 6K at most focal lengths (some wides will vignette, some won't, see Phil's chart). I am on the 8K train full throttle so anything that can't cover 21MM x 41MM is a prima facia fail in my world, YMMV.

I guess the real question is what makes more sense than the Schneider Xenon FF Prime set Phil likes so much. Does everyone have the same taste as Phil? Of course not, but unless they met a reasonable technical quality standard he wouldn't shoot them. I wish they were a bit smaller, but its hard to gripe at that price point.

Cheers - #19
 
Blair, you can't beat the mechanics of the Xenons for anywhere near their price. They are smooth and consistent...far superior to their competitors.
 
After reading all the posts it seems like the Schneider Xenon FF is a solid choice. It is at the top end of my budget but as Blair stated the next level up takes a big jump in cost. It also seems like I can buy them one at a time and they will match across the set when I get them all.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Don't buy the Xeens. Just don't. ...OK, that may be a bit harsh. They are OK for what they are, but the QC is terrible and they're plagued with a variety of issues. If you do decide to buy the Xeens, then get them from a good lens dealer like Duclos who takes the time to inspect and adjust each one before delivery. I have personally used the 50mm Xeen, bought it to test them out. It was garbage and I sent it back. For hardly any more money I can buy the Schneider Xenon FF 50mm or a bit more than that and go for the Zeiss CP.2 50mm 2.1 macro...

The Zeiss CP.2's are OK overall, quite nice mechanics and great size/ weight parameters. The issues I have with them is the range of optical characteristics and quality across the set. Some of the lenses in the series are absolutely amazing, like the 15mm. Some of them are total duds, like their 18mm. The good thing is the series is diverse and you can piece together a nice set with the best of the lenses.
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Hey Jeff,
would you mind elaborating on what you mean by "garbage"? I'm really interested in hearing about your experience with the Xeen lenses.

Thanks.
 
Carl Epstein said:
After reading all the posts it seems like the Schneider Xenon FF is a solid choice. It is at the top end of my budget but as Blair stated the next level up takes a big jump in cost. It also seems like I can buy them one at a time and they will match across the set when I get them all.
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Carl, I´m with Dan. Make sure you explore the CA behavior before making your choice. If you´re looking for a set for personal use and not in demand to cover FF/VV you might consider the Sony Cine Alta Pimes.
Cheers

Ulf
 
I think you should wait because I heard the Schneider's are leaving a blue or purple out line on the images. Don't know if that's due to the lens coating etc. but it seems that everyone is moving to this nano lens coating now.
 
I'm one of the few I guess that really love the look of the Xenons. This was at F4 with Tungsten light. You can open in another window for 1:1 image. Love Dragon! Straight from Redcine.
A002_C002_02037M.355.0000355F.jpg
 
Thats a pretty nice looking image. I like that they don't look overly sharp at t4.

Nick
 
So I noticed no one is saying anything bad about Canon Cne lenses? they are 1 k more but are they without CA etc? I may consider just doing that if they are that much better. It will max out the budget but I would rather get one set and be done with the financial shock all at once.
 
CNEs are OK. They provide a kind of clean, neutral look, lacking a bit of character, YMMV. I want to really encourage you to test several lenses for yourself and not just listen to what somebody might tell you. Choosing the right lens is a personal decision and also depends on what you plan to shoot. There is no universal lens that fits all needs, and with the budget involved you won't like to find out the flaws after your purchase.

Cheers,

Ulf
 
Ulf Speaks Truth.

Really depends on what you are shooting.

Beautiful frame grab Bob. Like I said, Xenons are amazing on Humans.

Filtration can also make a HUGE difference - even on affecting CA characteristics (adding or subtracting CA)

The CNEs should exhibit similar CA and other characteristics to their L series primes counterparts. likely internal surfaces are slightly different - maybe different paint or coatings on hard, non-glass surfaces, resulting in slightly different flares.

the CNEs are not without CA (14mm CN-E has abhorrent CA), but their characteristic of CA is different than Xenons for instance. It might show up at different times - example 14mm Canon shows purple fringing on highlights (street lights at night) but maybe not show lateral CA on products close up (or maybe it does - needs testing).

I tend to side with a lot of folks saying get Leica Rs - there are just so many great lenses to choose from, its difficult but fun.

Join us in becoming a Glass-aholic.

:)

PS - if you are in the LA area and want to check out the SLRmagic 50mm APO - call Digital Film Studios 818-771-0019

They have mine ;)
 
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