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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Zeiss Compact Primes or RED Pro Primes for the EPIC?

I have tested RED Pro Primes along with Zeiss Ultra Primes and with Zeiss CP.2 today.

The Result is: The Red Pro Primes and the Ultra Primes are on the same level, there are focal length where the UPs are sharper und higher resolution and there are focal length where the Red pro primes are sharper and higher resolution. The CP.2 are all of them more blurry and not as good with resolution.
 
Thanks for sharing Michael
 
thanks for the info! That helps a lot! I can now cross the Cp.2 from the list...now if someone can review the illumina s35 that would be great! ;)
 
Michael Kromschroeder said:
I have tested RED Pro Primes along with Zeiss Ultra Primes and with Zeiss CP.2 today.

The Result is: The Red Pro Primes and the Ultra Primes are on the same level, there are focal length where the UPs are sharper und higher resolution and there are focal length where the Red pro primes are sharper and higher resolution. The CP.2 are all of them more blurry and not as good with resolution.
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Hi guys, have to put my 2 cents in here, being a CP2 owner.. I've been using them since they came out, not only on 5D shoots button Film shoots on 435's and 235's.. When you put something under a microscope your bound to find something you like and dislike about everything.. But "more blurry" and "not as good with resolution" are statements without an application, what was the test? What cameras were the tests on? How much difference? What exposures? Also, just like everything in this business you use the right tool for the job.. The CP2s are affordable, great quality, liteweight, have interchangeable mounts, and have a look of their own like all lenses and cameras.. The RPPSs are GREAT lenses, but twice the weight/size. Is the difference in clarity and resolution between the RPP and the CP2s big enough where you would be willing to sacrifice weight for a spec more clarity/vice versa, it's all about the application...

I'm not trying to debate the fact that they might be in some way more of a lens or less of a lens than than any other, they just have their own strengths.. Whe. You make your decision on purchasing glass, it's like getting married, it's long term, so weigh all of your options then decide.. Also best to touch and test on your own.. You have to live with them ;-)

Hope this helps more than confuse..
 
Jean Guerra said:
does anyone knows if the Duclos 11-16 vignettes with 5kFF??
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I used the Duclos quite a bit Saturday on a commercial shoot. Epic 5k FF: It vignettes noticeably at 11mm f2.8. 12mm was quite acceptable for what we were doing.
 
Justin marx said:
Hi guys, have to put my 2 cents in here, being a CP2 owner.. I've been using them since they came out, not only on 5D shoots button Film shoots on 435's and 235's.. When you put something under a microscope your bound to find something you like and dislike about everything.. But "more blurry" and "not as good with resolution" are statements without an application, what was the test? What cameras were the tests on? How much difference? What exposures? Also, just like everything in this business you use the right tool for the job.. The CP2s are affordable, great quality, liteweight, have interchangeable mounts, and have a look of their own like all lenses and cameras.. The RPPSs are GREAT lenses, but twice the weight/size. Is the difference in clarity and resolution between the RPP and the CP2s big enough where you would be willing to sacrifice weight for a spec more clarity/vice versa, it's all about the application...

I'm not trying to debate the fact that they might be in some way more of a lens or less of a lens than than any other, they just have their own strengths.. Whe. You make your decision on purchasing glass, it's like getting married, it's long term, so weigh all of your options then decide.. Also best to touch and test on your own.. You have to live with them ;-)

Hope this helps more than confuse..
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Thanks Justin,
When you get your Epic, can you do some tests with your cp.2 (28mm to 85mm range) and let us know if they resolve enough resolution on 5k? I'd be interested to see if they have a "soft look" or if they are sharp enough. I'd like to see what the sharpness falloff is. Maybe post a pic or two...that would be great! :)
 
Maz Mawlawi said:
Thanks Justin,
When you get your Epic, can you do some tests with your cp.2 (28mm to 85mm range) and let us know if they resolve enough resolution on 5k? I'd be interested to see if they have a "soft look" or if they are sharp enough. I'd like to see what the sharpness falloff is. Maybe post a pic or two...that would be great! :)
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Absolutely!! Why not the 21mm? That's probably my favorite!!
 
Michael, would it be possible for you to post some frames of your tests? Not that I'm questioning your results, but I'm curios to see myself having several times worked with both sets but never got the chance to compare.
 
Michael Kromschroeder said:
I have tested RED Pro Primes along with Zeiss Ultra Primes and with Zeiss CP.2 today.

The Result is: The Red Pro Primes and the Ultra Primes are on the same level, there are focal length where the UPs are sharper und higher resolution and there are focal length where the Red pro primes are sharper and higher resolution. The CP.2 are all of them more blurry and not as good with resolution.
Click to expand...

I would really like to see the test as well if possible.. Thank you.
 
Hey justin
Can I ask, how did the CP2's perform on ARRI film cameras? Thanks.
 
Paul Nordin said:
I used the Duclos quite a bit Saturday on a commercial shoot. Epic 5k FF: It vignettes noticeably at 11mm f2.8. 12mm was quite acceptable for what we were doing.
Click to expand...

Were you using a mattebox? Several people in this forum have confirmed that the Duclos 11-16mm does NOT vignette at any focal length on FF 5K.
 
Michael Kromschroeder said:
Here is a comparison of the Zeiss UP 50 at 2.8, the Zeiss CP.2 50 at 2.8 and the Red pro Prime 50 at 2.8

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/mediabit/Zeiss_UP_50_2.8.jpg
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/mediabit/Zeiss-CP.2_50_2.8.jpg
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/mediabit/RED-Pro-Prime-50_2.8.jpg

judge for yourself.
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Thanks for doing this Michael..

First of all I HAVE NEVER seen such a clear chart shot with anything but film.. Amazing..


Zeiss Ultra Prime T1.9 - $12,100 - 2.2lbs

Red Pro Prime T1.8 $4250 - 4.53lbs

Zeiss CP.2 T2.1 - $3900 - 2lbs

The Ultra Prime definitely has them all beat in sharpness, I'm not sure what the noise in the left and right part of the grey leading into the focus lines is? Probably the JPEG..

The RED PRO PRIME and the CP2 both look extremely close in terms of focus to my eye, some parts of the corners look softer than others for each of the lenses, but that could be due to it not being 100% perfectly dead on to the chart? (look at the phone number in each corner to see what I mean)

As far as resolution, I really can't tell the difference between any of them?

Honestly the sweet spot of any lens isn't wide open, and the CP2 is the closest to that non sweet spot and still holds up REALLY well.

Thank you again for doing this test.. Did you do it at a T4 by any chance?
 
Justin marx said:
The Ultra Prime definitely has them all beat in sharpness, I'm not sure what the noise in the left and right part of the grey leading into the focus lines is? Probably the JPEG..
Click to expand...

Hi Justin,

Downloading and then pushing in on all three, I tend to agree with Michael. I think the Ultraprime and RPP are equally sharp and the CP2 is a bit softer. Pretty good results for all three, however.
 
Timothy Eaton said:
Hi Justin,

Downloading and then pushing in on all three, I tend to agree with Michael. I think the Ultraprime and RPP are equally sharp and the CP2 is a bit softer. Pretty good results for all three, however.
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I did the same and just did it again.. I still think the Ultraprime is sharper, but between all three, they all look great and would hold up in a scene together unless someone paused a movie on a 4k projector and zoomed in..

If I were to buy a set right now, I would still by the CP2s because of their interchangeable mounts and size.. I think the minimal quality difference is outweighed by those features for me personally in what I shoot and how much I rent them out.. (film jobs, 5/7d jobs, digital, etc)

@Brent, usually on a stedicam, and worked with them and the optimo 24-290 in the same scene, no one would ever know.. But never saw it projected..
 
Thanks Michael for those those jpeg. After reviewing all of them I agree the UP is the sharpest....but the Cp.2 is really not what i would consider "blurry". It's holding up quite well actually and is pretty sharp. I am now reconsidering the Cp.2 as a personal set. Thanks Michael and Justin for your professional inputs!
 
Thanks Michael!
I'm with Justin: The UP is the sharpest to my eye and the RPP and CP2 are very close.
Maybe you guys could tell me wich part of the chart gave you your conlusion of the UP and RPP being equal. I went for the centre.
I'm asking because the reults vary on the part I'm looking at. In the bottom left corner RPP sems sharpest, in the upper left the UP, etc.
Going for the center of the chart and considering the weight of the RPP's I'd go with the CP2's if budget is a concern and I need a lightweight setup.
 
Maz Mawlawi said:
Thanks Michael for those those jpeg. After reviewing all of them I agree the UP is the sharpest....but the Cp.2 is really not what i would consider "blurry". It's holding up quite well actually and is pretty sharp. I am now reconsidering the Cp.2 as a personal set. Thanks Michael and Justin for your professional inputs!
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That's what I love about this place.. You ask a question and you get answers from so many different points of view that can lead you to the product that is right for you.. Good luck with your purchase.. If you go with the CP2s goto Abel cine tech, they gave me more of a discount than what BandH was going to.. They also are now a Zeiss authorized repair center (only in the USA) their website sucks make sure you call a human. Also don't get the 18mm (slow and doesn't cover FF, don't get the 25 either, also Ng and they will come out with a new one soon) 21, 28, 35,50 and 85 best starting set..
 
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