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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Zacuto's "The great camera shootout 2011"

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Steve: Thanks for the info, can you understand however that the impression given can come across as quite biased, given that you are a major manufacturer of DSLR accessories as-well as a film-maker, I am not speaking as to your actual credibility but to the impression and perception of someone producing such a test.

Obviously I cant speak to this years test but last years test to my eyes (And I work across the spectrum from Film to ENG Cameras to DSLRs to RED work)was that it was a lot of people who were heavily invested in DSLR marketing and DSLR innovation in one room without much balance in the commentary, thats not to say there was no balance but the people that were involved were very well known for being DSLR evangelists in one form or another.
Possibly brining in some well known evangelists of other formats for the review and commentary stage might add a feeling of impartiality to the tests.

Just my 2c on the matter.
 
Steve, excellent post. Thanks for taking the time to come here and explain as such. I'm very much looking forward to seeing these webisodes. My only disappointment is having to wait 5 months to see them! :-)
 
Thanks for the well detailed post Steve. From what you have said it sounds like this will be a very well done comparison and I look forward to seeing the results. Oh and I was wondering if you did in fact get a representative from all companies? and who would be the red representative? If you want this to remain anonymous until the test is done to avoid confusion and clutter I understand just wondering.

well good luck and thanks for doing this (the right way)
 
Steve G said:
Once again, absolute nonsense, apart from price.
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Jeff Kilgroe said:
Why do we keep bringing up the GH2??? Why? I've been using one for a few weeks now and all I can say is, "meh...". Any further discussion belongs over at DVXUser...
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If you practice, test, learn and experiment then you would know later in post how to make a footage out of GH2 that can look better than many other xx times expensive 1080p cameras like an A**x*a, F35, etc,...
 
It's not physically possible to record a better image technically from the GH2 compared to the Alexa, so the more you repeat this piece of nonsense, the less and less people are going to take you seriously. Apple ProRes 4444 from the Alexa is something like 360 Mb/sec at 12-bit 4:4:4 Log, and the camera has the highest dynamic range of any camera on the market short of the Epic using HDRx™™, so how is an 8-bit 4:2:0 Rec.709 gamma camera going to compete in sensitivity, noise, dynamic range, color depth, etc.???
 
I haven't seen David get this worked up since they proposed making swimming suits madatory at the Cal-Arts pool.

:w00t:

(I'm just playing David.. Been thinking about our old school.. And missing Sandy a bit)
 
steve weiss said:
This test will be fair and unbiased and I think you will really enjoy both the SCCE when it comes out in April and the GCS2011 when it comes out in June
Here you can see the crew: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/313214/Single Chip Evaluation Crew Photo 2011.jpg
Steve Weiss
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Steve... it has been acknowledged that the Alexa has a slight advantage over the RED ONE MX in terms of dynamic range and an increasing advantage over all the others. It is also known that part of that advantage is due to a contrast filter on the Alexa OLPF. Are you guys considering testing all the other cameras with and without a similar filter on the lens, since that is easy to emulate?

Also... what form will the resolution tests be demonstrated?

Just curious.

Jim
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
Will HDRx™ be tested?

Thanks for chiming in Steve.
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There are no EPICs or RED techs available for this test so HDRx will not be tested. I'm quite sure that other comprehensive HDRx tests will be done as soon as EPIC-X is released.

Jim
 
Would someone mind explaining the pros and cons of this "contrast filter on the OLPF" ? Roughly, how does it work?
 
Bill Anderson said:
Would someone mind explaining the pros and cons of this "contrast filter on the OLPF" ? Roughly, how does it work?
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It's like a built in UltraCon filter. If you shine a bright light into the camera you can see a glow spreading over a lot of the screen, pushing light into dark areas reducing overall image contrast. I used to use one a lot on my old DV camera and it helped a fair bit to get a less contrasty image through to post.

Graeme
 
Thought it might be, but was a bit skeptical/uncertain of it being used in such a manner. Very interesting. Thanks Graeme.
 
Good question Jim,
I don't really know. As I stated, I didn't perform the test, Bob and his crew did, but I will ask. My guess is that they didn't use that filter but I will check. To remove myself and Zacuto from the test I am just making a documentary on how the test was done, include the test results and experts reaction to the test for web use.

As far as where and how we will be presenting the tests besides the internet that is still undetermined. We are going to find a venue in LA where we can have people come in and see the results hopefully in 4K. I will definitely be creating a dark theater in my booth and trying to get a 4K projector but might only end up with a 2K, we are trying to work out these details right now.

Again, I think filmmakers need to understand that these tests are interesting and fun to watch, the differences are slight but content is always king. Hell, I used an EX3 to do my documentary GCS2011 because it had XLR inputs for my boom, was light and could get me into tight spaces fast. Another important feature since we were completely handheld was that the EX3 has the flip up eyepiece and that allows a director to quickly see framing on a shot and I like that because getting my eye in the viewfinder while we are running and gunning is difficult and annoying for the operator. In this particular job it was more important to get the moments and I was willing to sacrifice quality to do that. It was the right camera for this job.

One other point to someone else's comment about the results of the 2010 test. The comment was that it was heavy laden in DSLR experts. The cast was Bob Primes ASC, Gary Adcock, Ryan Emerson, Philip Bloom, Jens & myself, plus all of the viewers like Stephen Goldblatt ASC, Shane Hurlbut ASC and many more. But of that core group really only Shane and Phil were diehard DSLR fans. I had actually never really used one. We all said film obviously looked better then DSLR's (except in extreme lowlight) but if you don't have the budget for film, a DSLR is a good option. I actually said I would shoot my film on film as I have for most of my career.
Steve
 
Steve... I heard that Michael Bravin was in on the testing. Is that correct?

Again... just curious.

Jim
 
Bill Anderson said:
Thought it might be, but was a bit skeptical/uncertain of it being used in such a manner. Very interesting. Thanks Graeme.
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We noticed it in the first shots we saw with a bright light in shot - it flared over a good proportion of the screen and we thought it a bit "different" to what we're used to...

Graeme
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
If you practice, test, learn and experiment then you would know later in post how to make a footage out of GH2 that can look better than many other xx times expensive 1080p cameras like an A**x*a, F35, etc,...
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Sanjin, I love you man and you've been a big help to me and trust me I sooooooooooo admire your passion (especially for Leica!) but you really need to stop mentioning the GH2. PERIOD. I mean it and I'm speaking as a friend ... don't type those three letters again here on the forum.

It should be obvious that it's very irritating to others, most of all to Jim -- and why do that? Not that he has time or energy to waste on such matters, but if I were you, I would want to be on his good side (for countless reasons). Besides there's PLENTY to talk about regarding Red, so for everyone's sake -- and especially for your own sake as a Reduser member and customer -- while you're in Red's house, please stay focused on Red .... okay Buddy?
 
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Steve great to see you here, big fan of your products and hope you guys will be developing a line to support the Epic/Scarlet (your color scheme/look goes quite well with Red, lol) ... or perhaps because of the DSLR-like form factor, the new Red cameras will work within your existing rig designs.

Anyway, appreciate what you're doing and hope you continue to hang out and post here -- this really is one of the (if not THE) best communities for sharing info/experience about filmmaking. And not because it's all about Red, but rather because you'll find that the people here are incredibly knowledgable, giving and supportive. Another plus is that they are used to cinema pricing/quality and won't complain too much that your excellent gear costs what it does (unlike you often get on the DSLR boards).

Again welcome, can't wait to see what you guys do and best wishes in 2011 :)
 
Yes Jim... Michael Bravin was there. He was manning the backlight station. Great guy.

About the OLPF filter, I haven't gotten an answer on that but I did find out that all of this technical specs of the testing process will be published in a document and if any filters were used, they would have been used unilaterally across all of the cameras. There was what we called the big board which was a gigantic chart that was in the data wrangling room that showed all of the options for every camera and every test and it was constantly being updated and it was massive.

Another note: all of the cameras were PL mount including all of the DSLR's except the Nikon. We used the same lenses on every camera. We had these 4K grade $80,000 Fuji zooms, which were amazing. There were some other lenses used but they too were used unilaterally across all cameras. We had an enormous amount of gear on set. Gear came from many sources but $2M in gear came from Clairmont Camera alone.

On another note, our caterer was amazing and the food was incredible so we had a happy crew. I still contend that food on set is one of the most important line items and often highly under-budgeted. An army travels on it's stomach. ;-)
 
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