You just can't make some people happy...

[Marden Blake]

Thanks for the welcome, your a bit late though, I have been buying cameras and equipment for over 20yrs and have a fair idea of what is needed for my productions. I was commenting on the fact that several on these forums keep saying "4K for under $10 000".....even if you have all the gear needed already you still had to pay for it.

So what's your point then? Regardless of if you have the equipment or not to get started, you're still paying "4K for under $10 000". You didn't buy 20 years worth of equipment in preparation for the Scarlet.

 

[Elan Gunos]

Dude I feel you! This also doesn't include the closet I'm going to be storing all this expensive equipment in. And who has just a closet? You need a house to put that closet in. And we gotta get some lights up in that closet so we can see. That requires some electricity and there has to be some electricity we have to budget for.

The only thing I'm pissed about is people claiming it is under $10 000, the reality is you will be looking at about $20 000 to get a decent operating system. Lets all get real here, no wonder there are some that are pissed off

Edit: Don't forget the extra $1000's for lenses

 

[Elan Gunos]

I'm still waiting for a miniScarlet that shoots on a 1/3" sensor, fixed, at 4:1:1 and records to tape at squeezed anamorphic.

 

[Erik Franzén]

Scarlet, "ready to shoot", is 14k. Let's not kid ourselves, anything else "needed" is just as necessary if you buy an AF100 or a Scarlet-X. Problem?

 

[Mike Garrick]

Hey Eian what sort of closet you getting, one of those budget jobs with flimsy door or upmarket version with climate control, concrete lining. Either way that drives up the cost of camera. Your right I so like....... totally forgot about the lightbulbs. Man I'm glad you mentioned the house I forgot about that as well. LOL

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

I would tell anyone who is upset about the high cost of Scarlet and its accessories the same thing I tell my students. Quit making excuses! If you can't afford it, get together with 2 or 3 or 4 other like-minded filmmakers and pool your resources. Do whatever you need to do to buy, rent or borrow the gear you need, and start shooting. It shouldn't be about the ego of owning or having this camera, it should be about what you can create with it.

But no one is making excuses. People just planned for something that looked very very certain until days ago.

PR is serious business and RED kinda let it slide on that front... It's ok to hype stuff, if you deliver. They hit the spot with R1 and Epic, but missed with Scarlet and pretended it never happened. It's just insincere.

What you are upset about is that Red is evolving dynamically, and staying ahead of the game. The reason Canon's camera was such a disappointment is because it's the end result of a road they went down a couple of years ago. Red is looking at the future, so they are constantly changing things today. Two years a go 2/3 might have seemed like a nice idea, but they didn't stick with it when they saw it no longer made sense. They are small and nimble and adapt quickly to new technology and what's happening in the film world. Why limit your self to 2/3s and build another box, when you can have both 2/3 (by windowing down) and 5K stills with 4K footage in a box that matches the Epic and all it's accessories. The Scarlet now serves as a back up or second camera to Epic shooters so it serves both Epic and Scarlet users. It's only a bit more money then what the 2/3s crowd was planning to spend, but serves their needs still and does a whole lot more along the way. Its only slightly larger than the old scarlet was going to be, still miniature compared to everything else. Brilliant move on Red's part, I was impressed. I don't see what people can complain about, it's a 4K digital motion picture For under $10k. Hello!

If you re-read my post carefully, you'll notice that I never stated that I was upset. That doesn't mean I cannot understand people's frustrations.

And if you also check my posts on other threads, I mentioned exactly this: Scarlet original announcement was in a pre-DSLR and pre-economical crisis situation. Now with the influx of affordable S35 solutions, the lower end Scarlets lost most of their appeal.

Thinking about the future? Dude, do you even know how laughable that is? People who bought the R1 ditched CF, then upgraded their sensors, then bought an Epic. There's no future proofing in the digital world, things move FAST. Just because it's RED's motto doesn't mean it's factually true. Future proofing = upgrading your sensor 2 years from now? Hehe.

RED just recycled failed (for Epic) ASICs and you claim they are future proofing? C'mon man. I'm not upset by anything RED made, they did exactly what needed to be done, but it's a company that survives on profit. It's just my opinion that they should practice their so bragged about transparency.

RED products are great, but let's not repeat mindlessly its advertising techniques. Advertising is just this, makes stuff look better than they actually are. That doesn't mean the product is shit as well, the world is not black and white.

Scarlet, "ready to shoot", is 14k. Let's not kid ourselves, anything else "needed" is just as necessary if you buy an AF100 or a Scarlet-X. Problem?

However media and batteries are cheaper for the AF100 and C300. RED's acessories are pricey.

 

[Jonathan Carbonaro]

So wait......... Is this a thread to bitch about people who bitch??
That's kinda awesome.... And kinda messed up...



But seriously, there are a few things about scarlet/epic/dates/timing/cost/etc, that I wasn't planning on either. But honestly, Red is revolutionizing the industry with every product they release. While I don't agree with everything, I love the images, and love the price. I will adjust accordingly.. And come on, if this was Arri, they'd say, you get what we give you and that's it. Because we are Arri and we rule the world. Even if you don't believe it

 

[Marc_L]

The thing that pisses me off (disappoints and frustrates, really) the most is that my income in recent years isn't anywhere close to what it would take to justify the purchase of any RED camera. Add that to not really having the skills or knowledge to operate one, and I really don't have any business buying one just yet.

I am, however, on a mission, to acquire both the skills and the money; as I told myself when I first learned about Scarlet that I would have to earn that camera with lower end gear. I've been (mostly) lurking here for quite awhile, and have learned a lot; some of which I hope to put to work very soon with a new job prospect. Please look for my post(s) in "Off Topic" where I'll be asking for advice on a project which is decidedly low-res (web only delivery, etc.).

And finally, I do have to admit that I am deeply disappointed that the new Scarlet does not have a built-in folding tripod/jib, red-eye reduction and a cell phone charger. Maybe next year's model will have 'em. ;o)

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

All I can say to all of you who fit into one of the above categories, GROW UP!

Firstly, the attempt of reducing negativity is very nice. Method used is debatable.


Now...with generalization, a "frame-of-reference interpolation" feature turned off,
and "grown up" feature turned on:


1) Complaint coming from a current or future customer is not conditioned with the lack of respect or appreciation towards the manufacturer. With a proper approach, the only thing a complaint undoubtedly brings is awareness about the dissatisfaction.

2) Switch between 2/3" and 35 mm imager is not just a spec bump, it's a total product switch, in many cases catering different market segments and projects. It's not difficult to guess that many people might have made choices and delayed or planned equipment purchases keeping in mind size/format factor.

3) Spec bump with price bump do not bump the nature of planned projects as well, nor they bump the previously arranged finances.
No matter how good the spec bump is.

4) Equipment purchase planning consists of analyzing factors which affect business. Some of which is ROI. ROI is, among other things, affected with market size, market value and market stability. Sudden unexpected drastic changes affecting it all, affect ROI as well.

5) People have been complaining since the first days of Red company being present on forum(s) and with almost every major news. With some complaints being completely unreasonable, some founded. They will continue to do so. It is partially the purpose of a manufacturer related forum. By enlarging the market coverage, the variety of customers and the amount of feedback is enlarged as well. A part of the constructive critical feedback received helps the company adapt and optimize the offer and approach, so by saying "If you don't have something great to say, shut up and go elsewhere" one is not really helping that company.

 

[Mike Garrick]

Marc, now if Red offered one of those everyone would really be pissed!!! ...because every one really wants a built in latte machine with an inflatable DA who can make it & serve it ........I know I do.