Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

You just can't make some people happy...

Thanx Josh cheers from downunder, tipping the the wine glass towards California....... Yep the glass is definitely full ..........of Red .
 
You know that Aussie wanker Lliam?
 
Mate we all wankers down hear , it's our convict heritage LOL. ......but no I' dont know Liam...yet.
 
Stephen Gentle said:
I'm 95% sure I remember hearing Jim or Jarred saying Dragon was Epic only at NAB (and now the new Scarlet will be able to take it as well).
Click to expand...

You very well might be right Stephen.

I like my RED ONE and don't mind it's size (which is actually pretty small and light for most cameras in it's class).

I think it would be cool to have the basic benefits of sensor technology advancements (sensitivity, S/N, latitude)
available for the camera into the foreseeable future.

No expectations on crazy frame rates or HDRX (I'll take it if offered though), just the meat and potato features to keep the investment competitive
in the majority of production situations.

Some people will be holding on to their RED ONEs or buying those used executed cameras for sale and
I'm sure they will pay for the sensor upgrades.

Yes, this is aimed at RED to read.

Whatever the case, they're creating amazing filmmaking options for a good many people.
Nothing to be mad at there.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
www.britim-media.com
 
Success in business creates both happy people and crappy people. The less successful you are the less of both you get. The more successful you are the more of both you get. Looks like Scarlet is quite a success.
 
Mark Crabtree said:
Success in business creates both happy people and crappy people. The less successful you are the less of both you get. The more successful you are the more of both you get. Looks like Scarlet is quite a success.
Click to expand...

There's a haiku somewhere in there. ;)

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
 
All I can say is that this deserves a "QUOTE"... ;)

Tom Greenberg said:
Is there anything that RED can do that some of you won't bitch about? I can't freaking believe it, RED (a company with only 400 people that has only existed for 5 years) brings out an absolutely incredible camera that blows away any possible competition for under $10K. It will continue the Epic's success in revolutionizing the digital cinema industry. It is also FAR SUPERIOR in every respect to the camera they had been planning to bring out for around $7K (Ted's last mentioned price).

Does that make you guys happy? No, it just gives some of you more reasons to complain.

We have the following pissed off groups:

1. People who still want the 8X fixed Scarlet and are pissed that Scarlet-X costs too much and weighs too much
2. People who still want the 3K interchangeable Scarlet and are pissed that Scarlet-X weighs too much and that they can't buy bargain 16mm glass
3. People who bought Epic-Ms who are pissed because Scarlet-X is too close in specs to their "best cinema camera in the world" that Peter Jackson swears by (and that I would commit unspeakable acts to own}
4. People who just bought Epic-Xs who are pissed because Scarlet-X is too close in specs and because people can buy it and take almost immediate delivery without waiting for months (even though RED gave them a $10K credit and a bunch of free accessories out of the goodness of their hearts for "owner-loyalty" - but just how loyal are those owners looking now?)
5. People who only want to shoot 1080p and don't want to pay for all that extra data throughput
6. People who are pissed that RED charges so much for SSD media (even though Jarred gave a lengthy explanation of the steps they go through to certify the media is reliable)
7. People who are pissed because accessories for high-end digital cinema cameras cost so much
8. People who are pissed because their governments charge import taxes and VATs
9. People who are pissed because the Epic-S went away (even though Scarlet-X is at least 90% of what Epic-S was supposed to be)
10. People who are pissed because their 4 year old RED Ones are not going to be upgradeable to Dragon sensors
11. People who are pissed off because they can't rent their Epics out for huge bucks any more
12. People who are pissed because Scarlet-X isn't even closer in specs to Epic-X and want it to do faster frame rates and more HDRx
13. And probably about 20 other varieties of people who are pissed about things I can't remember at the moment...

All I can say to all of you who fit into one of the above categories, GROW UP!

RED is a phenomenal company who cares more about its customers well-being than any other company I've ever encountered. They have gone way out of their way to be fair and to reward owner loyalty. They made a business decision that Scarlet as-it-was was not the product they needed to release...so despite all the $$ they put into it's R&D, they killed it off rather than cram it down our throats. Scarlet-X is the camera that many of us have been dreaming of.

If you can't see the incredible value that RED has provided to us all in Scarlet-X, maybe you should just go buy a Canon C300, or an F3, or whatever...
Click to expand...
 
I don't think it's a matter of 'SOME PEOPLE' as much as 'You can't make everybody happy.' Whether it's because of price, specs or something else.

I think the main problem is that people have been waiting for so long for this camera. If it was announced 6 months ago and was changed now, VERY few people would let out these frustrations. But I guess 'some people' might not realise how much of an impact this upcoming camera might have had on people. I for one changed my way of living completely - I saved every little penny I could: brought home food from work to save money, didn't go on vacation since 2007 to save money. Yes this is crazy but that is how much I wanted this camera. Fortunately I was able to afford the great camera Red announced this week. I'm happy, but I hadn't had the money I would be just as frustrated as other people. Maybe Red should make an official thread stating how sorry they are that this camera didn't work out especially because they spend so much time, money and effort on it - just like people awaiting it. Use these frustrations constructively instead.
 
Vince Doran said:
The only thing I'm pissed about is people claiming it is under $10 000, the reality is you will be looking at about $20 000 to get a decent operating system. Lets all get real here, no wonder there are some that are pissed off

Edit: Don't forget the extra $1000's for lenses
Click to expand...

"The reality is" welcome to everyday electronic purchases.

You buy an electric guitar, you also have to buy an amp, and cables, and any effects hardware.

You build a computer, you also have to also get a monitor and keyboard and mouse and mousepad and speakers and cat5 cable and router and anything else.

And I already have a computer, no need to pay extra. Already have lenses, no need to pay extra. Reality is different for every person.
 
Well said Tom. What I don't get is those bitching about the lack of a 2/3's sensor. WTF? The Scarlet, just like Epic and Red One, offers the option to crop your sensor down to 2k. In addition, the Scarlet offers 1080 and 1k. Are you annoyed at all those pixels going to waste? And let's put all those annoyed about the Scarlet being too close in spec to their Epics in a room with all those complaining that the Scarlet is too under-featured, throw in some Alexa users and anyone with an F3 or who plans to buy a G300 and let them have at it. I mean, seriously.

Poor Jim. He even goes to the trouble to piggy back the launch onto the Canon one for stark comparison and people still bitch.

Personally, I can't wait for the upgrade from Dragon FF35 to 6x4.5. It'll only shoot 2 or 3 fps at full rez but that is still 2-3 times faster than any other 645 out there. And you can almost bet the farm it will be an upgrade.
 
I think a lot of these people are Spys. I was on a shoot yesterday and several people started bad mouthing the RED. I did the Hollywood thing and kept my true feelings to myself ... don't want to offend an ignorant Director. It was obvious they didn't know what they were talking about and just wanted to convince themselves they were still mainstream. I think there may be an element on the board that wants RED to fail. TROLLS infiltrate most Forums.
 
Marden Blake said:
"The reality is" welcome to everyday electronic purchases.

You buy an electric guitar, you also have to buy an amp, and cables, and any effects hardware.

You build a computer, you also have to also get a monitor and keyboard and mouse and mousepad and speakers and cat5 cable and router and anything else.

And I already have a computer, no need to pay extra. Already have lenses, no need to pay extra. Reality is different for every person.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the welcome, your a bit late though, I have been buying cameras and equipment for over 20yrs and have a fair idea of what is needed for my productions. I was commenting on the fact that several on these forums keep saying "4K for under $10 000".....even if you have all the gear needed already you still had to pay for it.
 
Tom Greenberg said:
Is there anything that RED can do that some of you won't bitch about? I can't freaking believe it, RED (a company with only 400 people that has only existed for 5 years) brings out an absolutely incredible camera that blows away any possible competition for under $10K. It will continue the Epic's success in revolutionizing the digital cinema industry. It is also FAR SUPERIOR in every respect to the camera they had been planning to bring out for around $7K (Ted's last mentioned price).

Does that make you guys happy? No, it just gives some of you more reasons to complain.

We have the following pissed off groups:

1. People who still want the 8X fixed Scarlet and are pissed that Scarlet-X costs too much and weighs too much
2. People who still want the 3K interchangeable Scarlet and are pissed that Scarlet-X weighs too much and that they can't buy bargain 16mm glass
3. People who bought Epic-Ms who are pissed because Scarlet-X is too close in specs to their "best cinema camera in the world" that Peter Jackson swears by (and that I would commit unspeakable acts to own}
4. People who just bought Epic-Xs who are pissed because Scarlet-X is too close in specs and because people can buy it and take almost immediate delivery without waiting for months (even though RED gave them a $10K credit and a bunch of free accessories out of the goodness of their hearts for "owner-loyalty" - but just how loyal are those owners looking now?)
5. People who only want to shoot 1080p and don't want to pay for all that extra data throughput
6. People who are pissed that RED charges so much for SSD media (even though Jarred gave a lengthy explanation of the steps they go through to certify the media is reliable)
7. People who are pissed because accessories for high-end digital cinema cameras cost so much
8. People who are pissed because their governments charge import taxes and VATs
9. People who are pissed because the Epic-S went away (even though Scarlet-X is at least 90% of what Epic-S was supposed to be)
10. People who are pissed because their 4 year old RED Ones are not going to be upgradeable to Dragon sensors
11. People who are pissed off because they can't rent their Epics out for huge bucks any more
12. People who are pissed because Scarlet-X isn't even closer in specs to Epic-X and want it to do faster frame rates and more HDRx
13. And probably about 20 other varieties of people who are pissed about things I can't remember at the moment...

All I can say to all of you who fit into one of the above categories, GROW UP!

RED is a phenomenal company who cares more about its customers well-being than any other company I've ever encountered. They have gone way out of their way to be fair and to reward owner loyalty. They made a business decision that Scarlet as-it-was was not the product they needed to release...so despite all the $$ they put into it's R&D, they killed it off rather than cram it down our throats. Scarlet-X is the camera that many of us have been dreaming of.

If you can't see the incredible value that RED has provided to us all in Scarlet-X, maybe you should just go buy a Canon C300, or an F3, or whatever...
Click to expand...

We need to get realistic about the Epic-S, err, Scarlet pricing. It's the same as the C300 because the acessories are so expensive. So it's a $20K camera, not a $10K one.

People are not complaining about the product per se, but about a company that bragged for years how transparent it was just to change things suddenly and change the name of a product, scrapping others altogether without even making an apology for people waiting for the other one.

It's a great tool? I agree, I think a ready to shoot S35 package for $20K is an advance from the previous brain only $17.5K.

But we need to be clear about why people are upset, it's not about the camera itself.
 
Tom Greenberg said:
Is there anything that RED can do that some of you won't bitch about? I can't freaking believe it,

We have the following pissed off groups:

1. People who still want the 8X fixed Scarlet and are pissed that Scarlet-X costs too much and weighs too much
2. People who still want the 3K interchangeable Scarlet and are pissed that Scarlet-X weighs too much and that they can't buy bargain 16mm glass
3. People who bought Epic-Ms who are pissed because Scarlet-X is too close in specs to their "best cinema camera in the world" that Peter Jackson swears by (and that I would commit unspeakable acts to own}
4. People who just bought Epic-Xs who are pissed because Scarlet-X is too close in specs and because people can buy it and take almost immediate delivery without waiting for months (even though RED gave them a $10K credit and a bunch of free accessories out of the goodness of their hearts for "owner-loyalty" - but just how loyal are those owners looking now?)
5. People who only want to shoot 1080p and don't want to pay for all that extra data throughput
6. People who are pissed that RED charges so much for SSD media (even though Jarred gave a lengthy explanation of the steps they go through to certify the media is reliable)
7. People who are pissed because accessories for high-end digital cinema cameras cost so much
8. People who are pissed because their governments charge import taxes and VATs
9. People who are pissed because the Epic-S went away (even though Scarlet-X is at least 90% of what Epic-S was supposed to be)
10. People who are pissed because their 4 year old RED Ones are not going to be upgradeable to Dragon sensors
11. People who are pissed off because they can't rent their Epics out for huge bucks any more
12. People who are pissed because Scarlet-X isn't even closer in specs to Epic-X and want it to do faster frame rates and more HDRx
13. And probably about 20 other varieties of people who are pissed about things I can't remember at the moment...

All I can say to all of you who fit into one of the above categories, GROW UP!
If you can't see the incredible value that RED has provided to us all in Scarlet-X, maybe you should just go buy a Canon C300, or an F3, or whatever...
Click to expand...

Yes! way to many unhappy campers...

I think its best RED stop sharing there plans & dreams.. thats what gets them in trouble, People fall in love with these dreams and when RED changes there mind they all get upset...

It's common with small children on Christmas day.

I think a lot of people need to get over it and move either onto greener pastures or use the current RED cameras as they are. Thats it.. Done. finito... move on.

For one, I'm shooting more per day than I could ever do before with any other camera... (yes Alexa included) I can shoot all sorts of jobs with one camera now, Slo-mo, 4k, etc etc etc..... Could not do that before. I can do a majority of post in house now, could not do that before, I can grade RAW onset in real time... Could not do that before...
There is a lot of things we could not do before until RED cameras (especially EPIC) came into our studios.

And the price comparative to shooting and owning 35mm gear is literally 1/20th of what it was.
40K 5k RAW compared to 250k for a 35mm camera or 80k for a HD Arri pro res camera...
Scarlet even out performs Alexa...

Agree though... people should just go buy a Canon 5d or a C300 or Sony something.. or panasonic something....

What a lot of people forget is, is that a 12k Scarlet even out performs 80k Alexa...

EPIC is the camera to beat... FULL STOP!!!!!

All hail the KING I say, Long live the king.
 
Pietro Impagliazzo said:
We need to get realistic about the Epic-S, err, Scarlet pricing. It's the same as the C300 because the acessories are so expensive. So it's a $20K camera, not a $10K one.

People are not complaining about the product per se, but about a company that bragged for years how transparent it was just to change things suddenly and change the name of a product, scrapping others altogether without even making an apology for people waiting for the other one.

It's a great tool? I agree, I think a ready to shoot S35 package for $20K is an advance from the previous brain only $17.5K.

But we need to be clear about why people are upset, it's not about the camera itself.
Click to expand...

No, it's not a $20,000 camera. It is very possible to have a $14,000 to $15,000 setup that works very nicely.
 
Well, what about those of us who are not disappointed at all show some sympathy for those who got disappointed? Guess, many who do not have projects to fund a Red One or Epic built for a good reason a dream of getting and owning a first class camera. We all know how it feels when plans and dreams collapse, and in such case one it is more than understandable that one is tempted to communicate the frustration.

The other side of the coin is, cameras are getting better and they cost less. Although the fixed 8x Scarlet was not feasible at this point, it is not surprising if at some point the situation changes and Red comes up with a professional pocket camera Jim talked about in the beginning. The very fact that Red seriously tried to develop such a camera and so many got excited about it already shows there is a call for small size professional cameras. It's just a question when the technology is ripen enough to design and manufacture such a camera with a reasonable cost.
 
Jesper Sichlau said:
I don't think it's a matter of 'SOME PEOPLE' as much as 'You can't make everybody happy.' Whether it's because of price, specs or something else.

I think the main problem is that people have been waiting for so long for this camera. If it was announced 6 months ago and was changed now, VERY few people would let out these frustrations. But I guess 'some people' might not realise how much of an impact this upcoming camera might have had on people. I for one changed my way of living completely - I saved every little penny I could: brought home food from work to save money, didn't go on vacation since 2007 to save money. Yes this is crazy but that is how much I wanted this camera. Fortunately I was able to afford the great camera Red announced this week. I'm happy, but I hadn't had the money I would be just as frustrated as other people. Maybe Red should make an official thread stating how sorry they are that this camera didn't work out especially because they spend so much time, money and effort on it - just like people awaiting it. Use these frustrations constructively instead.
Click to expand...
yes. People that grew up with a silver spoon in the mouth, or people that don't have to pay for equipment, probably won't be able to understand what it means to earn every single coin to be able to make films. I had a similar time since 2007, saving every penny, etc. No holiday, no expensive wine, no luxury goods. I don't need that anyway, so it was not a hard time, but constantly the goal in front of the eyes to get a professional camera. Now I have the money, but the Scarlet is not good enough for me, and the Epic too expensive. My bad, and I don't blame anyone for it.

At least there is one positive effect. With 43 years I am still slim and in best health. Living a spartanic life has its advantages, and that because of a camera I didn't buy.:biggrin5:
 
Pietro Impagliazzo said:
We need to get realistic about the Epic-S, err, Scarlet pricing. It's the same as the C300 because the acessories are so expensive. So it's a $20K camera, not a $10K one.
Click to expand...

I would tell anyone who is upset about the high cost of Scarlet and its accessories the same thing I tell my students. Quit making excuses! If you can't afford it, get together with 2 or 3 or 4 other like-minded filmmakers and pool your resources. Do whatever you need to do to buy, rent or borrow the gear you need, and start shooting. It shouldn't be about the ego of owning or having this camera, it should be about what you can create with it.
 
Pietro Impagliazzo said:
People are not complaining about the product per se, but about a company that bragged for years how transparent it was just to change things suddenly and change the name of a product, scrapping others altogether without even making an apology for people waiting for the other one...
Click to expand...

What you are upset about is that Red is evolving dynamically, and staying ahead of the game. The reason Canon's camera was such a disappointment is because it's the end result of a road they went down a couple of years ago. Red is looking at the future, so they are constantly changing things today. Two years a go 2/3 might have seemed like a nice idea, but they didn't stick with it when they saw it no longer made sense. They are small and nimble and adapt quickly to new technology and what's happening in the film world. Why limit your self to 2/3s and build another box, when you can have both 2/3 (by windowing down) and 5K stills with 4K footage in a box that matches the Epic and all it's accessories. The Scarlet now serves as a back up or second camera to Epic shooters so it serves both Epic and Scarlet users. It's only a bit more money then what the 2/3s crowd was planning to spend, but serves their needs still and does a whole lot more along the way. Its only slightly larger than the old scarlet was going to be, still miniature compared to everything else. Brilliant move on Red's part, I was impressed. I don't see what people can complain about, it's a 4K digital motion picture For under $10k. Hello!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top