X264 vs. H264...

[AndreeMarkefors]

MKV is with little argument, a superior format for distribution of multimedia.

.mkv is a beautiful container. On a feature level, it's vastly superior-here we agree.

But that it is a superior format for distribution? With little argument?

When? Now? Do you think .mkv is a superior format for distribution now?

While mkv is an extremely popular format in the ripping scene, or among people that are familiar with such things as "codecs", I'd say that the largest part of a target audience for wide distribution don't even know what a codec is.

When RED makes a short, encodes it in h.264 and want to put that up on the web, I'd say the target is EVERYONE. Planet earth. Maximum impact. Why go for less?

When iTunes, Vimeo and YouTube uses .mkv and mobile phones and ultra portables have hardware chips that accelerate it-then you know it's time to switch.

It'll be a great day. Until then I'll keep looking to maximize what we've got today.

 

[Michel Hafner]

I can't find a source, unfortunately. But even if one were to use X264 to encode blu-rays, here are some restrictions for blu-ray compatibility which can be enforced with the --bluray-compat syntax:
...
bframe<=3, ref<=4, bpyramid<=1, weightp<=1, aud=1, nalhrd=vbr

x264 is used for Blu Rays. Criterion label paid for Blu Ray verification testing so they are in all likelihood using it (they are not a charity). There are others (see also http://sites.google.com/site/x264bluray/home). I'm sure BD specs limit x264 effiency somewhat but I don't think it's as drastic as you suggested, especially if one has time and is not interested in (near) real time encoding.

 

[Antoine Fabi]

I tried the x-264 encoder today, and the black level stays normal for a few seconds, then goes too dark for a second, then turns to normal...etc...etc...repeatedly...

Never seen such a sequential behavior.

Do you know what could cause that ?

Antoine

 

[Beom Koh]

I have similar problem here. I need to output a movie from Premiere CS5, and do anyone give me some best quaility settings? (Will be projected through large screen with a projector and a computer. The resolution should be 720p for the projector.)

I tried to output it to Mpeg2 with HD720 settings, but I see lots of noise in the video. How do I encode to x.264 from premiere cs5?

 

[Marc Wielage]

x264 is used for Blu Rays.

Actually, commercial Blu-ray discs use either MPEG-2, H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, or SMPTE VC-1:

http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/

 

[Petri Teittinen]

Actually, commercial Blu-ray discs use either MPEG-2, H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, or SMPTE VC-1

x264 is an implementation of a H.264/AVC compatible encoder, not a codec of its own. Criterion paid to have x264 certified for use on Blu-rays and it now produces 100% BD compatible video streams. It just hasn't been embraced by major studios yet. In fact, I'm aware of only one instance so far: a menu background video on a Warner BD title.

 

[H. Farberg]

Seriously, people? You're media professionals on a camera/acquisition-oriented forum and you don't know the difference between an encoder and a codec? Embarrassing.

 

[Chuck Z]

Seriously, people? You're media professionals on a camera/acquisition-oriented forum and you don't know the difference between an encoder and a codec? Embarrassing.

While I agree with you, you should probably be a little more diplomatic about it.

There are several Blu-ray titles that have been encoded using x264, but none of them are mainstream A-list tiles.

 

[H. Farberg]

While I agree with you, you should probably be a little more diplomatic about it.

There are several Blu-ray titles that have been encoded using x264, but none of them are mainstream A-list tiles.

I don't mean it in a shout-in-your-face kind of way, and I don't usually use language this 'harsh'. But there are people in this thread correcting others wrongly, and spreading misinformation. It helps no one, whether you're new to this or not.

 

[paulherrin]

i suggest sending private messages to those who are having trouble getting it or spreading misinformation, then let them take care of their posting. that's what helps people.

and... i hate compression.

i typically end up having to use h264 in mp4, and doing some monkeying by eye. not legit.
haven't tried x264, but it sounds like it could be viable, for now. at least there's less monkeying involved.
i would really like for us to come up with some kind of consensus on this, at least temporarily.

 

[Kieran Kunhya]

I'm one of the developers of x264 who wrote parts of the Blu-Ray support. I also maintain the x264 Blu-Ray guide at http://www.x264bluray.com and have helped many well known names integrate x264 into their workflows - there are many titles out there I can't talk about. I am also mentoring a student who's writing Blu-ray 3D support (H.264 MVC) as part of Google's Summer of Code programme and have an interest in using x264 for VoD and live broadcast television.

I would like to point out (like others have in this thread) that saying one needs an "x264 decoder" is a little bit misleading (although a common mistake). x264 produces perfectly valid H.264/AVC streams which are decoded correctly on compliant decoders. The fact that Quicktime produces incorrect output is beyond our control.

We're always pleased to hear of more users using x264 and I'm more than happy to answer any questions that anyone might have. Red have also inquired on our mailing list about licensing x264 commercially in their products.

 

[Michel Hafner]

We're always pleased to hear of more users using x264 and I'm more than happy to answer any questions that anyone might have. Red have also inquired on our mailing list about licensing x264 commercially in their products.

One came up in this thread. How much do Blu Ray specs degrade x264 efficiency compared to unrestricted parameter options for the same material and average bit rate? 10%? More? Less?

 

[Petri Teittinen]

We're always pleased to hear of more users using x264 and I'm more than happy to answer any questions that anyone might have.

x264 is one heck of an encoder; congratulations to all involved in its development! Having used it for ages, I'm still being surprised by what it can do with ridiculously low bitrates. MVC support, you say? Now that would be the icing on an already marvellous cake

 

[Kieran Kunhya]

One came up in this thread. How much do Blu Ray specs degrade x264 efficiency compared to unrestricted parameter options for the same material and average bit rate? 10%? More? Less?

The Blu-Ray specific options (bluray-compat and 4 slices) probably degrade efficiency by less than 1% or so at Blu-Ray bitrates.

x264 is one heck of an encoder; congratulations to all involved in its development! Having used it for ages, I'm still being surprised by what it can do with ridiculously low bitrates. MVC support, you say? Now that would be the icing on an already marvellous cake

Another cool story is the time we did Realtime 4K (2160p50) on a single 12-core server at a European ISP. Later on we hope to make a multicast 4K stream available over Internet2. (we're a bit limited by content and time right now)

 

[AndreeMarkefors]

I'm more than happy to answer any questions that anyone might have.

Hey Kieran,

Can you clarify licensing?

If I export to h.264 from a licensed product like Premiere Pro, and use the videos commercially—let's say online computer tutorials or golf instruction—would I formally need to inquire about additional licensing with MPEG LA?

Whatever the answer to the above, is x.264 with its open source libraries different and cost free from start to finish?

 

[Kieran Kunhya]

Hey Kieran,

Can you clarify licensing?

If I export to h.264 from a licensed product like Premiere Pro, and use the videos commercially—let's say online computer tutorials or golf instruction—would I formally need to inquire about additional licensing with MPEG LA?

Whatever the answer to the above, is x.264 with its open source libraries different and cost free from start to finish?

In theory you'd have to sign an agreement (which may include paying royalties) for both H.264/AVC from Premiere AND x264. In practice, especially more so in Europe where H.264/AVC patents are more dubious, most small-scale users don't pay.

 

[Stephen Gentle]

Hey Kieran,

Can you clarify licensing?

If I export to h.264 from a licensed product like Premiere Pro, and use the videos commercially—let's say online computer tutorials or golf instruction—would I formally need to inquire about additional licensing with MPEG LA?

Whatever the answer to the above, is x.264 with its open source libraries different and cost free from start to finish?

I actually heard something about Adobe CS not actually being licensed to allow commercial use of H.264 files it encodes. I'm not sure if that is exactly the case, or it may have changed since. Can anyone shed some light on it?

If that is still the case though, you should be paying royalties to MPEG LA if you deliver H.264 files to a paying customer, or if you use H.264 files in a flash player or with HTML5 on your website.

 

[AndreeMarkefors]

I actually heard something about Adobe CS not actually being licensed to allow commercial use of H.264 files it encodes.

This is true, but not shouldn't be a surprise. Adobe is paying to include an h.264 encoder in their software. That's their part.

What I wanted to confirm was the status of the h.264 files generated with a licensed encoder vs an open source encoder library like x.264.

The answer was the logical one: since the resulting files have the same status, the same rules apply. And perhaps to hammer the nail for the last time: using an integrated h.264 encoder results in the same file type as the x.264 way: a h.264 stream.

One way to sum it up is: x.264 allows you to encode h.264 files free of charge and very efficient (lots of settings). But once the files are spit out they are the same as commercial encodes.

 

[Alexander Mejia]

This is true, but not shouldn't be a surprise. Adobe is paying to include an h.264 encoder in their software. That's their part.
One way to sum it up is: x.264 allows you to encode h.264 files free of charge and very efficient (lots of settings). But once the files are spit out they are the same as commercial encodes.

This is correct. H.264 is a (very) complicated standard that has multiple levels of compliant files. x.264 is an h.264 encoder that is highly optimized for good visual quality to the human eye at lower bitrates. In other words it's a very efficient encoder.

Quicktime also has an h.264 encoder built in that also produces h.264 compliant files, but it's optimization is very poor in comparison to x264. Keep in mind that the data being generated are both compatible h.264 streams, but one is done a lot better. Imagine 2 people, one with really good handwriting, and college doctoral writing skills, and another with poor handwriting skills and is as proficent as a 5th grader. They can both produce sentances that humans can read, but one is going to produce a better result.

 

[Chuck Z]

MPEG-4 AVC has far fewer levels and profiles than ASP ever did.