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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

WOULD YOU BUY SCARLET AGAIN?

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Marek Kremer

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Hi guys,
I am about to buy a Scarlet package this week and I would love to hear your opinion.
Did it work for you? If would have another chance would you buy it again or you would have chosen something different?

I am editing r3D footage on daily basis and when I compared RED1 and EPIC footage shot on the same location in the same time I saw some minor differences. I wonder if you encountered something similar? First of all Epic picture was more soft. DoP and focus pullers were very good and have enough time to set everything right. I assume that the focus was set in proper way. Lenses were Master Primes on both. So why the pictures were so different?
Second thing. The Epic went in steady cam and during movement it generated very big motion blur, though, the movement wasn't very quick. The shutter speed was fast (I don't remember exact value).

- I compared it using RedCineX with native resolutions (5K and 4K), Color 4K both (Epic was scaled from 5 to 4K by Color but still RAW), DaVinci 2K both scaled only, keeping RAW.

Have encountered similar problems with Scarlet as it has the same sensor?

Thanks for you opinions.

All the best

Marek Kremer
 
You can shoot "Hollywood Quality" films at 4K HD RC 7:1 23.98fps. If that's good enough for you you will get full value from your Scarlet. Are there any used Scarlets for sale? That would be an indication as to how well they are being received.
 
And the RED One MX sensor is the same too..... So if you're seeing a difference between R1 and Epic it's all down to the camera settings. The compression is improved on Epic and more flexible, the electronics driving the sensor pull a slightly better image than MX on R1, and obviously more fps. Scarlet just lacks the fps and compression options that the extra horse-power of the Epic requires making it an absolute bargain.

Graeme
 
How is the Scarlet is able to display/scale the full 5k sensor in look around at 24p but its not able to record it?
Compressing is the easy part.
 
I am very happy with mine. The biggest downside is that I cringe when I have to work with cameras that don't shoot RAW. I suppose I've been a little spoiled.
 
I'm with David. Once you use a raw r3d workflow and see the quality and difference it's hard to go back. Then again had the same purchase scenario to when the scarlet released happened. No I would not have bought a Scarlet. It wasn't quite what I was expecting or wanted out of my camera, other than having 4k.

I was one of those hoping for an epic s. Half of epic x and m at around 12-15k. Instead at 10000 or so I figured what the heck. Maybe updates or Dragon will get us closer. Now we are looking at a nearly new body cost for an upgrade which kind of kills Reds obsolete saying. And we don't even know the specs. Not that I feel it's a waste. It's a great camera but I wish I would have just gotten an Epic from the get go.

I love my Scarlet but investment wise I Scarlets passed over fo Epics frequently. Lots of Scarlet users are killing the markets in multiple areas where I've had paying job offers by severely under cutting or offering free services to "get in". I'm sure the same happens with Epic shooters too.

Issues wise my Red gear has had its fair share. It always is handled well other than charging me for a side handle repair Red should've covered. I've actually done comparisons and tests an found the R1 picture to be better looking than Scarlet and Epic shots. I've found it the other way as well.

In the end do what's best for you. Price and needs wise. Going back I'd just get an. Epic though.
 
Drew Baird said:
I am very happy with mine. The biggest downside is that I cringe when I have to work with cameras that don't shoot RAW. I suppose I've been a little spoiled.
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2nd on that. Only real question i debate is if I should have gone epic. But when I got my scarlet I didn't understand enough to really appreciate what the epic would give me.
 
Money then everything else...

Money then everything else...

Hi there. If you have the money for an Epic (and don't need to worry about making it back quickly) then get an epic. I find that my scarlet is what I can afford and does what I need. I also find that I get good bookings because I can charge less then an epic package (mostly because the clients are different too and the camera does less so why would you charge the same price).

Would I choose an epic if I had the money, absolutely. Is an Epic better then a Scarlet in terms of demand, not sure but if the price is lower on the scarlets, I think many would give up the 5K and frame rate features for something that still give 4k and awesome look.

Overall, The Epic is great but I love my Scarlet.
 
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PatrickFaith said:
2nd on that. Only real question i debate is if I should have gone epic. But when I got my scarlet I didn't understand enough to really appreciate what the epic would give me.
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+1

I think the majority of us are on that boat. I look forward to the day that I buy an Epic. Still though, I've not suffered buyers remorse.

Jeffrey:
The market in CO is a hard one regardless of the camera you have. I left for Austin after my days at Colorado Film School so I haven't spent much time working out there, but when you helped us on our Ski Shop documentary we were pretty saddened by what has happened there. We were calling around looking for a microphone and people refused to help us. One guy said "Yeah, I've got a microphone for rent, but you can't rent it unless you hire crew from my shop". We were insulted and shot down by many people for bringing a production into colorado. It was an extremely and negatively competitive atmosphere. You were seriously the coolest person that we worked with out there. I would hire you again in a heartbeat. Hopefully the production incentives passing in CO will change things out there. It could be so amazing if more people just worked together.

Sorry for the rant, but it saddens me to see my home state behaving the way it was.
 
My finds after 7 months of scarlet:

When I bought my scarlet I thought it'll replace my 5D or GH2. It never did. I have 4-5 jobs a week, mostly television, events and smaller promo jobs. It's just to heavy to bring a similar scarlet setup to outdoor shoots for example. And it lacks sensitivity in low light for events at night. Most jobs don't need the RAW for grading. It's one more camera for specific types of jobs. Yes, it's a cinema camera. I use It for documentaries and musicvideos. The fan tends to ruin longer interview takes, imo I'd rather film an interview on the Iphone than having the artist in front of the camera surprised by the hooverish noise in mid take.
It mixes well with the GH2 for b-rolls.(except from IR faults in the blacks)
Still most of the people I work with can't really cope with the RAW files, they prefer ProRes files from the Samurai.(That's a good value option though) And I now have a desk full of 3TB harddrives.
But most important, most people (clients and endusers that is) see absolutely no difference in the footage compared to DSLRs. frustrating but true. A positive thing for clients is that it looks more professional on set (a fact I honestly underestimated for a long time).

120 fps is not really usable for professional jobs. 4K is nice, but I know how to frame my shots. 25p hdrx would make a little difference for me, but that's not possible yet.

It definitely is a very good camera but as of today for the nearly $20'000 it cost me in the end, I'd rather buy the Blackmagic m4/3, a FS700 and a 5d Mark III and a Nikon D800 and the Atomos Samurai.

cheers (I know, you can hate me now ;-)
 
I've had very few jobs shot with my Scarlet, so I started renting it. Now I've covered 70% of the cost, I'm hoping to have covered it all by the year (february 2013). So, yes, sometimes I look at it sitting there and I feel envy for those that hire it, but I have hope I will get to use it more often. I know it is a great camera, and that it will remain so for several years to come, it's nice in fact to know that I have the option of using a great camera, before I was stuck to DSLRs: I guess what bugs me is just the feeling the market has not realized how good it is, I guess, or that I thought that it would open more doors for me (which I can only blame on myself!). Meanwhile, I try to squeeze it in my projects whenever I can, which is not often.
 
Definitely a mixed-bag; I'm with Tobias in that I had hopes of being able to only need a Scarlet (pulling stills from video for photography even), but it's just not pliable for 50% of jobs. The fan noise, in my opinion, limits it strictly to controlled conditions (cinema, tvc, music vids, etc.) where you rarely do takes longer than 3mins. To a lesser extent, so does the data rate, but that's what bigger REDmags are for. Plus no XLRs (even minis) is a real bummer.

With the RAW workflow, I find you can pull plenty of info from, and apply aggressive looks to, baked-in video using 16/32bit layers in your cc software. A lot of people will argue that you can 'do so much with RAW', but the truth is the camera's other limitations (low-light, dynamic range, latitude -- which are the same limitations with every camera) force you to light properly which you have to do with any other "cheapy" camera anyway. In other words, you realistically should be lighting for the look on set, which nullifies the RAW-ability to a large degree (you shouldn't have to make such massive changes in post)... Don't get me wrong, when RAW saves your ass, you're very thankful to have it, but depending on how competent you and your crew are, that should be a fairly unlikely scenario (doubly so in controlled shooting conditions).

That said, it is a digital cinema camera and I knew of all these things before purchase, I just had *hopes* that I could make it work for less important jobs. I guess what I'm saying is that "simpler" point-and-shoot cameras can be dressed up to a more professional spec -- PL mounts, offboard recorders, rigs for matteboxes and kit, etc. -- but REDs can not realistically be dressed down that much. This extends to workflow and post-prod requirements as well -- you can spend a buttload of time making DSLRs footage look pretty damn good (not RED-good, but decent), or just dump it as-is direct from the camera and it'll still be adequate... With RED, you essentially have to spend time with the footage (but it'll look really good.)

Would I do it again? Yes. But I would have no disillusions about what jobs I thought I could and could not do with the camera. Also, don't think about selling other/easy gear to offset the cost. When you rent it and/or tinker around with one prior to purchase, you really don't think of all the little things and hassles that go into getting the kit perfectly operational (it's generally included in the rental or someone else has dealt with the small stuff). That said, if you're considering digital cinema, this is one camera that you won't out grow (whereas you will outgrow other cameras).
 
I come from 25yr+ EFP/Betacam use. Scarlet/RED is my first (last!?) HD/Uber-K camera and there has definitely been an adjustment in my shooting style. Others have stated correctly that this system is modeled around a "cine-style" shooting ethos, so for me, adapting it (or me!) around (mostly) documentary work has been a challenge. But others are pulling this off so I think its as much your attitude going in as it is the camera system. Jumping from smooth flowing TV-spec zoom lenses to Stills glass (and zooms) has been an angst-filed experience, one I still struggle with. But like every one else says here, it comes down to the pictures my little Leaf-Blower generates... wow!

For the DSLR set, stepping up to Scarlet is likely an easier move than Old School guys like me. I am nothing if not in awe of the pictures you guys pull from what seems the most byzantine pieces of kit to make these Still cameras perform HD duty. For you, I would think the Scarlet, at its price point, would be something of a revelation, delivering on the Promise you hoped for from your super-charged Canon DSLRs.

Every time I pick up my Scarlet, I marvel at what it is, the potential it has. And what I can do.

so:
YES. in a heart beat.

Stu Aull
SX 199
Alaska
 
I completely agree with William. I'm not sure who said it first but Scarlet is kinda like a gateway drug making you want an Epic.

When I bought my Scarlet I thought it was a much better value than the Epic. I now realize that it's the other way around.
 
What are you intending this camera for Cinema ? TV ? Web? I reckon there's a whole lot of Epic's right now shooting TV & web. Scarlet dollar wise is a better fit for these markets.

The thing that I find amazing is people moaning about this camera not being an Epic. Well, next year this camera can be an Epic for less money than it costs to buy an Epic right now. Sure you will not have 6K (upgraded) & high variable frame rates but so what (high frame rates are already so yesterday)..... do you really need it for TV or Web ? When you do, hire in an Epic.... no big deal.

So next year I can't wait for everyone to be moaning about how 5K is like so yesterday......so creatively limiting & how its only good for lowly Scarlets. Then I will point them to threads from this year espousing just how powerful, wonderful & so "right now' 5K Epics are today.

P.S. Rental pressure on Scarlets isn't just coming from other owners but also coming from Epic owners. Seriously some of the Epic rates quoted on this forum are less than what I use to hire my 5D package for. Is that a sound business model ?
 
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The SCARLET for me, has opened many doors for me.... I have found that it was far more popular than I even knew. Literally every time I break it out on a job I almost always get another job. I really had no idea that it was going to be so popular. Everyone loved it so much I had to get the EPIC as well. And of course there's no doubt that the images are amazing as well...
 
I would probably buy an Epic now... anyways, Scarlet is a great camera. It can't be compared to anything at this price point, except maybe for second hand Red One MX.

Once you go 4k raw, you never want to go back...
 
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