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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

worldwide Red and its owner policy puts LA major rental houses in panic

Roberto B

Roberto B

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take a careful reading between the lines on this.. they're expecting the newbies.. and it seems they're frightened.. trying to domesticate us..

eheheh..

they should think we are a some sort of fool user..

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?showtopic=21527&st=120

and on.. and on.. and on..

lol

other sample:

"My biggest bit of skepticism regarding the RED camera is still the price point of $17,500 per camera -- I just don't see how they will make a profit"

eheheh..

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?showtopic=20035&st=15&p=148608&#entry148608

and they're saying it's not their problem.. sure.. i'd like to see to who they will rent their F900H, F900R (the new model) etc..
 
Dinosaurs...

Dinosaurs...

Evolution is not about survival of the bitchiest... it's about adaptation. And many of the more virulent posters on cinematography.net are set to go the way of the dinosaurs.

Let's be honest though. Nobody who's even vaguely neutral could deny that there are a number of so-called "fanboys" on this board, but to say that about everybody who's following (or buying into) the evolution of RED is an insult. I most certainly do not consider myself a fanboy. For a start, I'm too old to be called a boy. Secondly, I've been working in the industry for about 28 years and have made a number of docos that have been broadcast around the world. IMHO RED is a development worthy of tracking... and hopefully buying! So why should I pay any attention to the dinosaurs? Like Jim Jannard said, leave 'em to it.


As for RED opening up the field to a new breed of filmmakers... all power to it I say!
 
Considering the market for film based productions won't dissolve during any of our lifetimes I would say investing your talents in that area wouldn't be a dangerous move.

Even if you refused to ever touch a computer in production, you would still be a valuable DP since you're hired to provide beautiful lighting. There is no adaption needed. Yes the RED is going to be cool and inexpensive but... I could never touch a red in my life and still be a valuable and employable piece of talent.

All this "adapt or die" business is bullshit. It's true in the vfx industry where we're sooooo freakin' slow that any improvement is a huge improvement, but in film production lighting is lighting, gripping is gripping, focusing is focusing and nobody gives a shit what the capture element is made of except a very select few, a select few whose jobs usually aren't on the line.
 
Hi im.thatoneguy,

I agree with what you say completely, but it's not only the "skeptics" who makes it that's important in this debate. It's who watches it.

It's all very well and good to write off youtube content as "cinematically challenged" (to put it politely), but lots of people are happy to spend their time watching that sort of content, regardless of what it's shot on.

Even if more storytellers – of all quality – can access high-end cameras at reasonable prices, it may not turn everyone into a DOP with their own "masterclass" groupies & 4K "how-to" workshops, but some might make "alternative content" that a whole lot of viewers prefer spending their time watching... instead the bigger budget films that pay the wages of more established crew members... and that's what they're really frightened of.

That sort of (r)evolution cannot be controlled by skepticism, intellectual pig-headedness, stagnation or any brand of new camera. It's just a cultural phenomenon whose time has come.

Cheers
Brainstorm
 
If you substitute "film" with "tape", and "Red" with "ProTools" those entire debates over there (and here) could have all been written 15 years ago on the Digidesign and a few audio pro websites.

Considering the accelerated pace of progress this discussions will all go away very fast. Especially with 1500 cameras in the field coming fall.

Jochen
 
While I am not a fan of CML, I am not going to say anything about them.. Like any group of people, there are those I like... And well, then there are the rest.

David says RED, in the end, is just a camera... PEOPLE make things work.. I think he's right. But I am glad for RED all the same

Jay
 
Cinematography.com != CML
Cinematography.net == CML

Confusing, isn't it :-)

Graeme
 
Pity it looked so bad in the cinema with the excessively sharpened visuals giving it that "VHS rental" feel :-) Remebering watching that is one of the things thing that drives me to providing the best visuals at an affordable price so there's never an excuse for that again :-)

Graeme
 
They make some good points about RED's buyers.

This is not a camera for film students or amateurs (unless Daddy's rich).

While RED's price point puts it reasonably close to the prosumer market, I'm guessing many of these people likely will not have the skills or client contacts to generate business effectively or the local industry technical contacts (what key grip can pull that rig off? etc), to deal with the grind of film making as a full time business model. People should be careful,

RED certainly wont make you an artist.

Does this make any sense?

J
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Pity it looked so bad in the cinema with the excessively sharpened visuals giving it that "VHS rental" feel :-) Remebering watching that is one of the things thing that drives me to providing the best visuals at an affordable price so there's never an excuse for that again :-)

Graeme
Click to expand...

Agreed,

Great concept though, and reasonably well executed. Funny to see lenses worth 10 times the camera, together.

I saw some of your stills yesterday. Nice and contrasty!

J.
 
If all the experienced minds in the motion media industry spent a lot more time and energy brainstorming ways to progress and learn, and a whole lot less energy defending their turf, imagine where we'd be right now...

There's only so many hours in a work day, month, year, and career...the more time that is spent on judgment and infighting, the less time that is available to do constructive work toward progress individually, and for this industry as a whole.

The degree to which someone can set pride, jealousy, and ego aside determines the degree to which they can continue to learn and grow.

Everything is dynamic - nothing is static. To either stagnate or grow is an active choice.

What's your choice going to be?
 
I find CML interesting, since you can see a very pretty different perspective on RED than in reduse.net.

Some people at CML are grown up professionals with a attitude I like, for instance David Mullen who points out all the time that it is not the technology that does a film its the people who do it. Good story is a good story no matter which camera you use. Same with light, framing, moves not to mention acting, directing, editing etc...

I care for good stories and the nice people I work with. I dont't care about turf defenders...

Hans
 
I think this thread should be closed. There's enough bashing on going over at cinematography.com. Let us not become like that.

Keep to constructive posts about the camera.
 
flowerchildprojekts said:
I think this thread should be closed. There's enough bashing on going over at cinematography.com. Let us not become like that.

Keep to constructive posts about the camera.
Click to expand...

Agreed,

Rumours, talking smack and disrespect to long time industry profesionals make this board look like a bunch of little children. Lets learn all we can to do the best work we can when we get our cameras and let the images do the talking.
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Cinematography.com != CML
Cinematography.net == CML

Confusing, isn't it :-)

Graeme
Click to expand...

Cinematography.net = heavily moderated
Cinematography.com = most forums unmoderated (or very minimal)

Stephen
 
all those that move up from a hand size DV camera or even those that have never shot before - IMO if they put out 20K+ they will learn how to use the equipment .. within a short time they will be selecting shutter speeds , F stop , etc many will learn by DOING , others will learn from mentors.. once they learn the camera and if they are not satisfied with their images they will learn or do whatever they need to get images that pleases them ( could be taking lighting class , hiring gaffer for projects -whatever- they will seek it out) ...
there will be a % that will give up but that is true with the business in general - & i would guess that the % of those leaving the business is much higher for those that didn't spend 20K on equipment ...
 
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