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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

workflow help -- of course

E

el saul

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Hi,
I just shot my last short on RED. I'm digging how easy it was to work with and the quality of the footage. Now I'm in post and I could use a bit of help figuring out workflow issues.
The ultimate goal is to finish HD. At first I tried converting all footage in RED Rushes to 2k ProRes, but it was taking years. I figured I didn't need all the footage converted, and I needed to get cutting, so I just finished a rough cut using smallest proxies.
Now I'm wondering what the easiest way for me to convert the 4k files to 2k ProRes using edit points in FCP. Also, quite a bit of the footage needs effects work to be done--most likely in After Effects. Should I be working with 4k files in AE? Also, I probably shouldn't be working with ProRes for anything that needs effects, right?
Any suggestions? I'm a bit lost and could really use some help.

thanks!
 
After editing in FCP with proxy, you can export XML, conform that with Crimson and save the telecineXML & intermediate files (when you save the telecineXML, it will automatically save the intermediates), then you can load the intermediate files just like you load the R3D files in REDCINE, then apply the telecineXML that holds the edited information.

In your case, if you have some portions that needs motion effects then you can output those clips separately with larger prores (like 4k x 2k, this is still readable with FCP, it won't playback but you can place it in the timeline and use motions and render to watch). You can of course output to AE if you want. Then mix them in the FCP later.
 
Thanks...

Thanks...

Thanks...but, is there any other option besides Crimson? Also, I heard that ProRes is really not great for compositing. Is that true?
 
For compositing shots I'd go back to Redcine and export a nice TIF image sequence. That would give you maximum quality.

Noah
 
Yes, Crimson is the way to go (for now). If you do a decent one-light and get the footage close, ProRes is sufficient. But if you have the hardware, DPX files (or, barring that, QT uncompressed) will give you the best results for all manner of grading and compositing. 2K or 1080 is fine, just use the highest quality debayer and scale the footage down to your framesize.

Your choice of format should be dictated by your tool of choice for the conform. DPX + EDL is enough for most DI grading suites (Baselight etc.) If you're onlining/conforming back in Final Cut, QT Uncompressed or ProRes will be the easiest to work with. DPX files can work in FCP with a third party app called GlueTools... this has the advantage of the highest quality (e.g. for grading in Color) while still using FCP as the Swiss Army Knife.

With the release of the SDK the options will open up, but Crimson is a great tool that works today.
 
Glad I found this post :excl: I'm excited as a kid in a candy store to be cutting my first "RED" shot Indie. Luckily we have a RED One in house so I've been messing with the workflow for sometime but never for a possible film out. And therein lies the issue: "Possible film out." :unsure:

If I edit w/the Ref. QT's, my understanding is that I won't have any metadata issues later when I go to conform and color correct... But if I go the ProRes route (via FCP Log & Trans or REDrushes) -- because currently we're slated for an HD Cam master -- will I have issues later if my client gets his hands on the additional funds needed for a color grade and/or color correct w/the R3D files in REDCINE or Scratch?

And lastly, if I edit on my MBP w/the medium or proxy rez reference QT's, back at the shop on my Mac Pro can I relink to the 2K Ref. QT's? Maybe that's an FCP question, my apologies, I've been on Avid for 14 years. What I'm trying to do is edit on the go in low-rez and keep it hi-rez at the office.

Thanks,

Ben Rojas
Senior Editor
VTA Florida
 
dj_redd,

Yes, in FCP you can relink to 2k Ref QT (use the 'Reconnect Media' option and point to the other media).

Regarding workflow, I don't think you can color correct from ref. QTs. I believe you do your 'first light' in RedCine/RedAlert and then transcode to ProRes HQ (should be perfect for HD). The ref QTs are mainly to load into FCP and do the editing (which works very nice and fast).
 
Thanks everyone for all the great advice...As an update, here's is what I decided to do. I did my first cut using the "P" proxies, then used Red Rushes to covert the R3D files to ProRes HQ, then simply relinked to these in FCP. At my budget, purchasing Crimson wasn't really an option, but I will say that I got lucky that I could use Red Rushes because almost everything was shot MOS (that, and this is a really short project; I wouldn't have gone this route on a feature).

Now for compositing, I'll either go to AE with the ProRes files or spit out 4k tiff sequences using RedCine. Or...I could just wait for native R3D support from Adobe later this week.
 
Pxion said:
dj_redd,

Yes, in FCP you can relink to 2k Ref QT (use the 'Reconnect Media' option and point to the other media).

Regarding workflow, I don't think you can color correct from ref. QTs. I believe you do your 'first light' in RedCine/RedAlert and then transcode to ProRes HQ (should be perfect for HD). The ref QTs are mainly to load into FCP and do the editing (which works very nice and fast).
Click to expand...

Thanks, Pxion. I'm now cutting w/the M QT's on my MBP and relinking back at the office on my MP to the H QT's. It's working well other than the ocassional green screen and/or drop frames that I'm sure has do w/my version of QT. I'm just going to wait that out rather than dealing w/installing an early version of QT.

As for color correction, the producers don't have a budget to conform and color correct so I'll do what I can do with FCP's color correctors. Now that MichaelP pointed out that Avid's DNxHD is working in REDCINE, the option to finish in our Nitris has presented it's self... Let's see if I can squeeze the rock for a little blood :tongue: Kidding aside, it isn't all about the budget, we've got a hard deadline for Sundance submission so I'm sticking with the workflow that's currently working.

Thanks again for the response... And thanks to el saul for letting me hijack the thread a little bit :biggrin:
 
word...it's helping me, too, man. I'm working towards that Sundance deadline myself, btw.
 
dj_redd said:
As for color correction, the producers don't have a budget to conform and color correct so I'll do what I can do with FCP's color correctors.
Click to expand...

Note that you will have to conform at some point down the line with FCP. The QT refs are just refs that 'on-the-fly grab pixels from the the RAW R3D'.

Depending on your targeted output (HD?), after picture lock in FCP you will have to go back to the R3D files and transcode (e.g. ProRes HQ for HD). (Crimson automates this process, search for it here).

This you will need to do prior cc-ing / grading in FCP or Color. I am not familiar with the Avid workflow, but imagine that also there you will need to conform at some point.

I am not an expert on RED workflow, but tried some basic workflows in FCP / Color. You may want to check the whole process from R3D to final out for yourself as well and make sure it works.
 
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