Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Windows NLE Systems

S

Sean

Banned
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
533
Reaction score
0
Points
0
We still need to hear what RedCine's minimum system requirements will be, but in the meantime I'm trying to wrap my head around working with HD codecs in a Windows NLE.

Obviously, there is a lot of competing technology, such as many different "HD" codecs, which all muddy the water considerably. I've been working in DV on Avid Xpress Pro for about a year, and I'm now very familiar with it. But I wonder how Avid Xpress compares with products like Premiere Pro 2.0 when editing and finishing at 1080p. If I can stick with Avid Xpress, I would like to. But it seems that Adobe is getting very competitive with the HD features of Premiere. Love to hear about the pros and cons of Avid Xpress or Premiere dealing with RedCine's down-sampled 1080p from where we're sitting now. Y'all know more than I do!
 
Avid strengths: Hella Fast real-time.
Premiere strengths: Unusual file formats.

Avid weaknesses: Picky hardware.
Premiere weaknesses: Sitting around waiting for renders to complete.
 
im.thatoneguy said:
Premiere weaknesses: Sitting around waiting for renders to complete.
Click to expand...

Also, and I have no idea if this is still the case, but Pro 1.0 would sit there and conform all DV audio to 32-bit because that's what the timeline works at... Then if you moved the project it would forget it had done this and do it again.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Banned
  • #4
I wonder if Premiere will make for an easier RedCine workflow than Avid Xpress. For one thing, with Premiere you can probably stay in a codec exported directly from RedCine, whereas Avid would have to "transcode" that codec to its own DNxHD codec--that might be a good or a bad thing, I'm not sure.
 
Sean said:
…with Premiere you can probably stay in a codec exported directly from RedCine, whereas Avid would have to "transcode" that codec to its own DNxHD codec--that might be a good or a bad thing, I'm not sure.
Click to expand...

With Avid you can also stay in a codec exported from REDCINE, so long as you use one of the Avid supported codecs, such as DNxHD or DV. However, although Avid does not have to 'transcode' Quicktimes on import, it still has to convert them to OMF media files to work with them. This is 're-packaging' them from a Quicktime wrapper to an OMF wrapper, and has no re-compression loss. It is much quicker than re-compression, but still involves making new copies of the media on the Avid's media drive, so takes an amount of time comparable to a straight copy of the files.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Banned
  • #6
Nick Shaw said:
With Avid you can also stay in a codec exported from REDCINE, so long as you use one of the Avid supported codecs, such as DNxHD or DV.
Click to expand...

Hm, wait a moment. RedCine does not export DNxHD. You can't get a DNxHD out of RedCine (not yet). And so Avid does NOT stay in the codec exported from RedCine. RedCine can give us DVCPro or HD uncompressed, for example, which is then converted to DNxHD by Avid. Maybe the HD uncompressed converted to Avid DNxHD is "lossless"--I don't know. But there is still some change in codec between RedCine and Avid.
 
REDCINE can export to any Quicktime codec installed on your system. Avid DNxHD (along with all the other Avid codecs) is available as a Quicktime codec for Mac and PC as a free download from Avid. [LINK]
 
Okay thanks. Again, I didn't know that. HD is new to me. Well, there will be a lot of Avid (and FCP and Premiere) workflow threads in the months to come. But to return to my original post, given that DNxHD is supposedly a high quality HD codec, and RedCine will be able to export in this codec, is there any advantage to Premiere then? I was under the impression that Premiere was less proprietary in the codecs it allowed for. But it sounds like Avid Xpress will be just as easy to work with RedCine.
 
Premiere does have advantages... Lower setup costs in many situations, direct integration with other Adobe software like AE and Encore. It's not a bad editor at all. IMO, I'd choose Premiere Pro over AVID Liquid or some of the entry-level Xpress offerings. Avid Xpress gave me some real issues about a year ago with the HVX200 and was one of the key factors I shifted to FCP. So I'm a bit biased, but I know that Avid still hasn't solved all the P2/MXF issues.
 
You wouldn't go RED->QT->DNxHD

you would just convert straight from RED -> DNxHD

One advantage of premiere is that it's resolution independentish. Part of the reason it's so buggingly slow. So you can actually edit 4k footage if you're so inclined. Personally I'm not.
 
What would be killer if Adobe put some of photoshop tools in premiere, like color correction. It would be really handy to have some frame by frame tools like a clone stamp or healing brush so you could fix single frame or few frame problems.
 
Gopher77 said:
It would be really handy to have some frame by frame tools like a clone stamp or healing brush so you could fix single frame or few frame problems.
Click to expand...

Uhm... that's what After Effects does. But integration between AE and Premiere Pro is pretty tight.
 
Hi Folks,

I doubt that you have heard about the EDIUS PRO 4 NLE editing system but if you are Windows based this should at least be looked at IMO. I've owned EDIUS software for over 3 years now and it has a lot of real time features that you normally only find on high end AVID systems but it's MUCH cheaper. Take a look:

http://www.canopus.com/products/EDIUSPro/newfeatures.php

It also comes with a very effective HD 'HQ' codec which makes everything work in real time e.g. CC, filters, PIP, cropping, scaling, etc etc

I'm not an expert in all the other NLE systems but I'll probably stick with EDIUS for my initial HD projects and see when it runs out of steam. I'm certainly going to visit their stand at NAB.

All the best, Phil
 
There are still some Edius diehards hanging on out there. I haven't thrown in the towel quite yet. 3rd party support has crippled Canopus from the beginning, but I just can't seem to part with my Edius. It's came a long way in a short period of time.
 
Edius

Edius

damonbots said:
There are still some Edius diehards hanging on out there. I haven't thrown in the towel quite yet. 3rd party support has crippled Canopus from the beginning, but I just can't seem to part with my Edius. It's came a long way in a short period of time.
Click to expand...

Well I'm not sure what 3rd party support you need that you don't have? There are very few realtime editors that allow 6 filters/CC/PIP/Wipes per track for a few hundred $$'s. Sorry I'm preaching to the converted aren't I??

I've done five ~80min projects in it and while I feel I might have to move to FCP for a 4K flow, if it was just 1080 I'd stick with Edius. I might even go with some sort of hybrid flow??? I guess I'll find out at NAB.

All the best, Phil
 
im.thatoneguy said:
You wouldn't go RED->QT->DNxHD

you would just convert straight from RED -> DNxHD

One advantage of premiere is that it's resolution independentish. Part of the reason it's so buggingly slow. So you can actually edit 4k footage if you're so inclined. Personally I'm not.
Click to expand...

There seems to be some back and forth on this. From what I can gather, you're not quite correct. RedCine doesn't export DNxHD codec. It exports various QT codecs (not including DNxHD), and Avid would transcode this to DNxHD. Mr. Rob Lohman of Red has himself stated that Avid will require "transcoding" (at least at this point in time) and that such transcoding does have an impact on time and quality.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top