Will REDCINE have an Online Mode?

[Chris Parker]

Good points mmmost. Particularly about the monitor. So, for the low-end of things, throw in a nice ecinema display for 10 grand. still pretty cheap. no 2K theatre, but still....makes it do-able to finish a project for relatively cheap.

as for apple (final cut pro) not supporting redcode, i disagree. look at how heavily they are promoting this. look at their recent co-development of the AJA IO HD with Aja. Look at their release (version 1.0) of Color. They are on the path to working with digital cinema.

And mostly I am HOPING that Color will become much more than it is today.

Anyways, FCS plus Redcine 1.5 (by NAB 2008 IMO) will be when it all becomes easy and relatively cheap.

 

[M Most]

as for apple (final cut pro) not supporting redcode, i disagree. look at how heavily they are promoting this. look at their recent co-development of the AJA IO HD with Aja. Look at their release (version 1.0) of Color. They are on the path to working with digital cinema.

Really? Promoting heavily? I've never seen an co-sponsored ad for Aja, and I don't think I've ever seen an ad for Color, either. Not even a press release. But I see countless ads for iPhones, iPods, iTunes, and to a much lesser extent, iMacs every day.

I'm just doing the math.

So, for the low-end of things, throw in a nice ecinema display for 10 grand. still pretty cheap. no 2K theatre, but still....makes it do-able to finish a project for relatively cheap.

Maybe. But the biggest cost of a film DI is the combination of negative and print stock, recording, and printing - not necessarily the color correction time. Is it sensible to save what amounts to a smaller part of the overall cost to achieve a product that is less than what it could or should be, when you could go to a facility set up for the purpose and get exactly what you want for not that much more than trying to do it yourself on the cheap? Is it really sensible to spend $50-70K on something that is not as good as what you might have if you spent, say, another $10K to do it right? Now, if film is not part of the deliverable picture, what you say has validity. But if it is, I really question the approach.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Nice cheap workflow yes but will it have RT? Stuart has already said REDCode will not be RT in FCP but whether or not that's a problem for you tends to fall directly down FCP/Avid lines.

because of what will there be no realtime? Will aja or someone else offer a solution for having RT in FCP?

If not, i will wait what assimilate will offer for redusers.

 

[Chris Parker]

Really? Promoting heavily? I've never seen an co-sponsored ad for Aja, and I don't think I've ever seen an ad for Color, either. Not even a press release. But I see countless ads for iPhones, iPods, iTunes, and to a much lesser extent, iMacs every day.

I'm just doing the math.



Maybe. But the biggest cost of a film DI is the combination of negative and print stock, recording, and printing - not necessarily the color correction time. Is it sensible to save what amounts to a smaller part of the overall cost to achieve a product that is less than what it could or should be, when you could go to a facility set up for the purpose and get exactly what you want for not that much more than trying to do it yourself on the cheap? Is it really sensible to spend $50-70K on something that is not as good as what you might have if you spent, say, another $10K to do it right? Now, if film is not part of the deliverable picture, what you say has validity. But if it is, I really question the approach.

Hmmm. Well, if TV Ads are how you judge Apple's level of interest in their various divisions, then yes, you see infinitely more for iphones and ipods than Final Cut Pro. But FCS 2 is not a consumer gadget. It is a professional software app. Would be silly to advertise on TV. So your point was lost on me. Now you did mention that you had never seen a press release or ANY marketing material from Apple at all that would support my claims. Now, that made sense, because it is through targeted marketing such as press releases and internet videos and such that they would promote such 'niche' products, as compared to the mass marketing needed for the ipods and such.

Interestingly enough, I found these within 1 minute of my internet searching:

http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/action/?movie=red

http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/action/?movie=aja

http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/action/?movie=coenbrothers

I would say that those are three high end press releases that talk DIRECTLY about all my points. Getting the Coen Brothers to talk about Color and DI work certainly doesn't sound like they are about to fold up shop and run away from their involvement in the post production business.

Developing a brand new prores422 codec and working directly with AJA to develop the IO HD doesn't sound like they don't take this business seriously either.

Comparing it to ipods is like apples and oranges.

Anyways, your points about the film-out cost are very valid. I totally agree with you. IF you were doing any project with a film-out, then yes, going to a dedicated, high-end place is worth the extra 10 grand.

I was talking specifically about LOW END, which to me automatically means no film out. Broadcast pieces, DVD releases, etc.

For any film out, you are totally right. Go with the established system to get the best product.

So again, I re-iterate my opinion. By NAB '08, using only RedCine and FCS 2, finishing footage shot in RED will be easy, relatively cheap, and give you a pretty damn high end look (assuming talented people are at the controls).

 

[Russ Lasson]

Nobody from RED has posted on this thread. Is there any official work on if REDCINE will include an online mode? Just some way to export the sections of the R3D files being used in an EDL or XML! It's a really big deal to get this feature.

-Russ

 

[MikeCurtis]

Not official by any means, but here's what I've heard in the past:

1.) There has LONG been discussion, publicly (NAB 2007) that Redcine would do SOMETHING along the lines of pulling in an EDL or XML from your edit, and generating a Red Pull List - a list of the shots you need.

2.) Devil's in the details - will that flop over into a list of JUST the shots you need, selects with user definable handles? Remains to be seen.

3.) Based on user/reader reports I've heard (such as the above mentioned beta 55), that feature isn't described in current builds, so that SOUNDS like it isn't going to be a feature this week (right, Stuart? Redcine this week? ????!!!!!), but is on their roadmap.

4.) The catch is how long until it is implemented and works smoothly.

5.) I've been hand conforming some stuff via DPX (FCP ProRes to Color DPX), and it takes some time. I'd want me some interns/assistants to do it for a feature, and based on tools AVAILABLE TODAY it would be a fearsome undertaking, just in terms of hand processing a large number of files to a large number of big DPX frames.

6.) The good news Red, Graeme, Rob, Deanan, etc. are all extremely aware of the importance of this issue, they just haven't been talking about it publicly a whole lot - I'd guess they've been focusing on getting the cameras out and stable, one step at a time, etc. Conform is not the #1 priority right now.

My unofficial $0.02.

-mike

 

[mezmo]

Hi SkipD
FCP will be a great low end tool and a great offline solution
for higer end stuff. Work in proxies and when Redcine gets
pulllist /matchback together conform out a DPX sequence to
be graded in a higher end system.
With someone who can grade and knows how to prepare a project
for film-out.. Colormanagement, burn tests trial prints blah, blah.
It's all good, Mezmo

 

[mezmo]

Hi SkipD again,
and another thing, Apple at the end of day are just another
company of box droppers. Software drives hardware sales.
By a freak of nature they have managed to produce an
editing tool to rival Avid, that bunch of Porche driving wankers,
and beat them at their own game. In the process they sold
thousands of shiny silver boxes to people like me.
Don't hold out on Apple to deliver a high end 2/4K conform and
grading tool, it might be a long wait. FCP2/Color is just fine for what it does for the price. I'm very happy with it.
I for one would much rather see a bit of competition for Scratch.
Some choice in the Red post marketplace, if you know what I mean.
Mezmo