Will not shoot anything until I have A Scarlet

[Jeffrey Loewe]

What happens if Scarlet is that idea that sounded good three years ago, but its slated for the scrap heap in its current form?

RED will lose alot of potential customers, unless the release is imminent of the alternate.

I think the idea behind that post was more of a response to people having backlash to the philosophy change thread personally. As in what they did as a business 3 years ago in communication with everyone is different then what they want to do going forward.

The only changes I can really see is maybe Sensor size or Resolution size at this point. But who knows it's RED and maybe thats why they've been so quiet on the Scarlet front. My personal feeling is that while they're producing X's they're also producing Scarlets. The reason they're keeping it quiet is because they have said that there will be no stages, or anymore announcements, when it's in the store, it will be announced. They want to have enough to sell without going through pre-orders/waiting lists, which is hard to predict. There are alot of people that want the Scarlet, but alot are straying away due to the wait and silence on RED's behalf. While anything is really speculation, it wouldn't shock me that they're producing them to have a good number ready when the floodgates do open...if they actually ever do.

Again I could be totally wrong, and if they decide to abandon this market, price range all together...it wouldn't totally shock me...nothing at RED does really besides there awesome tech and advancements. It's a shame it takes them so long to come to fruition. The economy isn't the same as when it started. As they rise there prices, and ours go down it gets more complicated for RED outside of those who can afford Epics. Price increases are dangerous, as are delays in a tough economy. In the world before many could buy a camera, and sell it to replace it with the upgrade shortly there after. Now and days most I know want to buy a camera and stick with it for a few years as there budgets have decreased. People who own Epics and RED One's often don't share the frustration those waiting for the Scarlet do. We'd all love to be RED customers but can't afford it or haven't had the chance too. There are some great people around here waiting for the Scarlet with alot of talent. I don't work in the commercial market, I make less, but love my work and would never change it, I don't have time to pick up commercial projects, I can't afford the cost of an Epic/Red One kit. Scarlet is perfect for me. If that disappears I get the next best thing that is available now.

I could be totally off base, but I know I have several others who feel the same as me. And we have alternative packages planned and picked out just in case.

 

[Brian Robbins]

At least the original poster didn't post this back in 09 when everyone thought the camera was coming out.

 

[Nuka Wølk]

We was going to resume my music video shoots but have decided to wait until the awesomeness that is SCARLET!!!!!

Stopping a production because you want to shoot on a camera that isn't even out yet doesn't make any sense.

I kindly suggest that you stop dreaming. Pick up a camera, and go finish the job!

At this point in time, we can all just look forward to working with this amazing camera. But until then, I suggest you keep advancing your skills with what you have or what you can get

 

[Julio Quintana]

If you can't make a good music video with the budget cameras out there right now.... chances are you wont be able to make a good music video with even an Alexa/Epic.

There are just no excuses not to be out filming and bettering yourself....

I totally agree with Jay. Postponing work to wait for a camera seems ridiculous when there are tons of usable options right now:

RED M-X
RED M
Sony F3
Panasonic AF100
Canon 5D
Canon 7D
Panasonic GH2
Sony EX3
Sony F900
Panasonic Varicam
Panasonic HVX200

 

[Brad Walton]

I'm also waiting for the Scarlet to be released, but that does not mean I hold off on shoots. Until then, I rent my camera equipment. There are plenty of affordable alternatives. Experience is key in this industry. The technical and creative aspects of filmmaking can't be fully understood until it's a hands on experience. The more hands on, the better.

 

[Ruben and Sheri O.]

I know I know the reason we wanted wait is because we thought the Scarlet would be released this fall/winter I guess back to shooting with Canon for now... =) Luv u all =) thanks 4 the positive feedback even if it was hard to hear...

 

[Tim Hole]

It still may be released this year. I do not plan on buying another camera until the Scarlet. I have a 550D for persomal stuff and gigs include rental so it's matters little. As I happens most of my time one is development on a feature so I dont need a camera until easter next year. If the Scarlet is released before then I would be buying it purely for geekish and casual shooting.

It has been said many times on these boards never wait for the perfect camera. I'm not waiting for the perfect camera, just the one that destroys a 'making do' philosophy.

 

[Eston Diaz]

What happens if the Scarlet becomes a 4k at the original price point. Just a thought. My hunch is, Red isn't into "Hustling Backwards"

 

[Leo Sardello]

This:

I'm not waiting for the perfect camera, just the one that destroys a 'making do' philosophy.

Personally I've haven't seen a need to upgrade from my HVX and I am still waiting for the right camera to be released to do so. I believe that will be the Scarlet. Nothing else has actually been worth my $$ to date. And yeah I'm one of the guys that actually wants a 2/3 fixed lens camera, at least for the camera I'm going to own and tote around.

So I don't really see any problem in waiting per-se, as long as you wait the right way. The right way is finding a way to maintain your craft while waiting- be that via the purchase of a hold-me-over camera, via rentals, or via the retention of a currently owned camera. Waiting is only wrong if you do nothing while waiting. Not that I'm not entirely guiltless in that myself.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Sony and Panasonic have jumped on the large sensor bandwagon, and I expect 4k like models next year, even starting this year as the shd TV's are rolling out. The biggest problem is that the regular interface is a slow frame rate, luckily display port will do descent frame rates of shd, but not in 3D, so equipment like 3d projectors (Jim has just announced info is coming over in the 3D TV thread) and Scarlets needs to have updateable ports to take advantage of it. This means a custom port and adaptor. There was talk of upto 40gbs thunderbolt (display port) this year which would be good for deep color.

I forgot, as far as dropping models goes, with the large sensor cameras out there, it might pay to drop 2/3rds line, and just have one super35 or 4/3rds, a 2/3rd lens could still be mounted wit at least 2k. Otherwise, you might only keep the 2/3rds.

I'm expecting to here something soon.

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

Sony and Panasonic have jumped on the large sensor bandwagon, and I expect 4k like models next year, even starting this year as the shd TV's are rolling out. The biggest problem is that the regular interface is a slow frame rate, luckily display port will do descent frame rates of shd, but not in 3D, so equipment like 3d projectors (Jim has just announced info is coming over in the 3D TV thread) and Scarlets needs to have updateable ports to take advantage of it. This means a custom port and adaptor. There was talk of upto 40gbs thunderbolt (display port) this year which would be good for deep color.

I forgot, as far as dropping models goes, with the large sensor cameras out there, it might pay to drop 2/3rds line, and just have one super35 or 4/3rds, a 2/3rd lens could still be mounted wit at least 2k. Otherwise, you might only keep the 2/3rds.

I'm expecting to here something soon.

Thanks for sharing some of the info from the main board. I stopped reading over there yesterday as Epic owners get upset at others for asking questions of progress rather then just talk about which Epic X number they have

Kidding to some degree. And thanks for the info on 3D I'm pretty lacking of knowledge on the whole topic, and what it takes to achieve it. Do people really seem to think that 3D tech could effect changes in the Scarlet and when it's released?

 

[Eric Rodemann]

Again I could be totally wrong, and if they decide to abandon this market, price range all together...it wouldn't totally shock me...nothing at RED does really besides there awesome tech and advancements. .

I think the Scarlet is a great idea from a marketing standpoint, and building brand loyalty.

You see this in other cameras. Take Canon for instance. They get people to buy the Canon Rebel line, which is relatively cheap. Those customers get used to the Canon menus, software, they buy canon glass, and in essence become familiar and sometimes loyal to the brand.

Some of those loyal Canon customers will upgrade to more expensive more professional Canon cameras, or upgrade to newer Canon Cameras that are released.

Similarly, new Scarlet users will get used to using the Red software, Red camera menus, they will purchase Red Accessories, and may later upgrade and graduate to Epics, etc.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

As they mature they can afford to buy Epics. It is good when people can relate good affordable image making to buying your brand instead of others.

 

[Stephen Matthews]

Just noticed something might be meaningless or it could be something. In the photo of all the scarlets lined up Jarred posted the scarlets have the updated air vent on top.

As a side note they all have the red 5.0 touchscreen, and a side handle and from what I can see no redmote. now before we jump to any conclusion, they have said there would most likely be multiple packages so this does not necessarily indicate what is in them, and could just be the configuration they sent them out in to get tested and shown off(though I'm sure this has been speculated on before).

could be nothing just thought I would point it out, if anything it's interesting that image was shown long before the new vent was shown on the epic. has someone noticed this before?

Have a good one!

 

[Luis Caffesse]

The Scarlet I saw at NAB had an air vent on top - not sure what you mean when you say 'updated' air vent?
The cams in the pic look exactly like what they've been showing off since NAB (and earlier) as far as I know.

 

[Michael Olsen]

Actually that style vent was shown in the technical drawings Jim posted up a long time ago for people to start thinking about rigs and accessories. Very cool to "re-notice" it on Scarlet, though.

 

[Stephen Matthews]

ah missed that, thanks. by air vent I mean, old shark fin vs. new boxed design (new to me) on the top. the shark fin is on the old renders of scarlet and I believe Ted's scarlet he's been running around with, so that's what threw me off.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Thanks for sharing some of the info from the main board. I stopped reading over there yesterday as Epic owners get upset at others for asking questions of progress rather then just talk about which Epic X number they have

Kidding to some degree. And thanks for the info on 3D I'm pretty lacking of knowledge on the whole topic, and what it takes to achieve it. Do people really seem to think that 3D tech could effect changes in the Scarlet and when it's released?

Delays require updates in specs to keep ahead of competitors. For instance, the SI 2k was a side shot out of our group. It was a camera I directly advised on. I was directly asked behind the scenes, when all they had was an expensive camera head, and they exactly did what I advised them. I was one of it's uncles. But they over delivered on price, and underdelivered on future marketabley future proof features, and the competition came along with the Red One at newly the same price. The announcement of the Red One marked the beginning of the end of their predominant position, the delivery of the Red One was the end. If they had halved the price, and sort a close too 4k future solution, they probably would have been OK.

When scarlet was announced, the clear marketable advantage of 3k was coming to an end a year after or so after. At that time big competitors could have taken the risk to crowd the market with low quality 3k cameras, and good 2k cameras, just by announcing them 6 or so months before they were due. 4k would have been a clear advantage. Now scarlet needs an upgrade to clearly marketably out shine them. 3D with 4k or s35 5k in the scarlet price bracket would be a start. 3D with conventional single lens canbe done real cheap for scarlet due to it's high frame rates. See isee3d's website. The technology also allows easy no brainer 3d setup as it does not need it unlike twin rigs. There is a minor problem that slowed downed or paused footage will alternate positions due to stereo frames being sequential, but more serious cinematographers can buy a second camera and sync them. You could also use a program to artificially time align stereo frames.


I should note, have you noticed the purchasers of cineform is gohero or something like that. Cineform Raw was supposed to be superior or something in the early days, and years ago they were developing a small tablet like recording solution (I think that might have been one of my suggestions too) that though supposedly nearing completion dissapeared. Imagine if gohero brought out a high frame rate cineform fhd camera, or 4k with 3D, people would go ape sh_t over something like that, even if only a small sensor, which, it does not have to be. Companies could easily license cineform for prosumer cameras. For the development of my own camera project, I inquired about the licensing fee. I have not heard of anything about new cameras or potential for such, but you can see why updating to keep ahead of the competition is important. I am hopeful that the recent movements and the pre-announcement of 3d projection, and potentially laser based from past discussion, indicates an inhouse solution and camera developments to use it for.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

What about rain on the airvents, some places rain randomly spits, here downpours can start suddenly?

 

[Michael Olsen]

Wish I was at the computer to link you to the thread, but...

Electronics are tottaly separate and sealed away from the heatsink area. Because of that, a little water shouldn't be a problem, though I'd want to protect the camera whenever possible.