Will Canon 70-200 support up to 4k 5k 6k before it vignettes on Scarlet?

[kevin holmgren]

Been studying for awhile to choose the next lens to add to my new Scarlet, have a Canon 50mm and a Tokina 11-16; been seeing so many good reports on the 70-200mm. But want to future proof this as much as possible. Seems like loads of people have the 70-200, does it vignette or do anything weird over what resolution etc.

Thanks (and open to any other suggestions on a next lens - maybe the 100mm macro from Canon that Tokia likes...)

 

[Matt Ryan]

It's a FF lens so it should still cover the Dragon Sensor which is still super 35 and just slightly larger than the current sensor. Others can weigh in but FF lenses should all cover the new Dragon sensor. Most PL glass will vignette (PL is made for s35 not FF) at the wide end, but stills glass should cover it fine as it's made for a larger image format.

As for Canon Lenses I'd go for:
24-70 2.8 II
70-200 2.8 II
100mm Macro
Canon 2X extender

With your Tokina 11-16 you would be set.

 

[kevin holmgren]

Thanks for the quick reply. been really thinking about that 100mm Macro too. Seen many really like that 24-70 too.

As for a filter, which would you recommend for these (I assume they are all 77mm)? for both UV and general use?

 

[Colin Sheldon]

Most PL glass will vignette (PL is made for s35 not FF)

From Jim:

The Dragon sensor is slightly larger than the Mysterium-X sensor and the pixel size is slightly smaller. The pixel design and sensor design makes all the difference in the world.

Most all of your current lenses will work.

Jim

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?77169-Dragon/page7

So Dragon will only be S35 and most PL lenses will work fine.

 

[Mike Harrington]

Your tokina will already vignette at 5k....
Still a good lens..

 

[Matt Ryan]

From Jim:



http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?77169-Dragon/page7

So Dragon will only be S35 and most PL lenses will work fine.

yeah I read that too. But most wide PL lenses already vignette at FF 5K so if the sensor is even slightly larger they will vignette a slight bit more... If you read my post I said the wide end of the spectrum and most zooms vignette on the wide end at 5Kff. Ask anyone who has shot on the Epic...

As for filters:
I'd just buy UV filters for each one and leave them on permanently like a scratch shield. Then I'd get a polarizer, nd .3, nd .6, nd .9 , nd 1.2. and those should cover you 99% of the time.

 

[FrankMcPartland]

I mostly use the Canon 70-200L Mark II, 24L and the 100L Macro on Scarlet. I am looking forward to using the new 24-70L MarkII (however the lens is *still* not released yet)

 

[Colin Sheldon]

yeah I read that too. But most wide PL lenses already vignette at FF 5K so if the sensor is even slightly larger they will vignette a slight bit more... If you read my post I said the wide end of the spectrum and most zooms vignette on the wide end at 5Kff. Ask anyone who has shot on the Epic...

16mm and up on Ultra, Master, and Compact Primes all work, so do all the RPPs. So SOME wide PL primes vignette. Also, most of the vignetting that we've experienced on our epic occurs outside a 16x9 frame.

Here is a handy chart - http://web.me.com/ducloslenses/DataRef/ImgCir.html

 

[kevin holmgren]

Thanks for all the suggestions – I bought the 70-200 last night and with amazon prime, I should have it tomorrow afternoon to try. Got a B&W UV filter, just to protect the lens and sensor. The 24-70 might be next.

Then add a matte box with a set of filters, so I don't have to buy a set of filters for all the different lenses.


And there are some RPZooms Like the 18-50 that seem to be reasonably priced.


Then I'm done spending money for awhile. (just paid for reeducation too; hope to say thanks in person to many of you all that are so giving with their time to help answering noob questions. )


One last: I assume if the camera is off, excessive uv can not damage a sensor with no power through it?


Thanks.

 

[Matt Ryan]

16mm and up on Ultra, Master, and Compact Primes all work, so do all the RPPs. So SOME wide PL primes vignette. Also, most of the vignetting that we've experienced on our epic occurs outside a 16x9 frame.

Here is a handy chart - http://web.me.com/ducloslenses/DataRef/ImgCir.html

I think your mistaking what I am talking about. I am talking about FF5K/6K coverage. On the chart you provided the image circle needs to be 43mm+ to cover and only the CP.2's and the longer prime lenses cover that size. Of course shooting 2:4:1 or within a 16x9 frame will cover a wider range of lenses, but I'm talking specifically about covering the FULL FRAME Sensor in FF Mode.

So in that, the new slightly larger sensor in FF mode will require slightly more than 43mm+ to cover the FF mode of the sensor. S35, no worries...

 

[Colin Sheldon]

I think your mistaking what I am talking about. I am talking about FF5K/6K coverage. On the chart you provided the image circle needs to be 43mm+ to cover and only the CP.2's and the longer prime lenses cover that size. Of course shooting 2:4:1 or within a 16x9 frame will cover a wider range of lenses, but I'm talking specifically about covering the FULL FRAME Sensor in FF Mode.

So in that, the new slightly larger sensor in FF mode will require slightly more than 43mm+ to cover the FF mode of the sensor. S35, no worries...

"FF5k" isn't the same as FF35. "FF5k" is just using the full 5K MX sensor.

When you look at actual sensor sizes you find:
The 5DM2 (FF) - 36mm x 24mm (864mm squared).
The R1 M (S35) - 24.4mm x 13.7mm (334.28 mm squared)
Epic MX (S35) - 27.65x14.58mm (403.1 mm squared)
Epic Dragon (S35) - 30×15.8mm (474mm squared)

So as you can see, an actual FF sensor is basically twice the surface area of the new Dragon sensor. Red does not currently, nor have they announced any release dates for, an actual FF camera. All of Reds cameras now and for the foreseeable future are S35.

 

[L. Langer]

Well, Jarred loves - and apparently most often uses from what I've read from him - the lens we are discussing here so I'm sure all is well as far as image quality is concerned though Canon has stated they are re-designing their professional lenses for use with higher resolution sensors ala their Cinema EOS system based on user feedback.

 

[Lee Saxon]

"FF5k" isn't the same as FF35. "FF5k" is just using the full 5K MX sensor.

And that confusion is why I'm always ranting about lensmaker marketing departments saying "covers 5K" as if the number of pixels on a sensor has anything to do with its size.

 

[Matt Ryan]

"FF5k" isn't the same as FF35. "FF5k" is just using the full 5K MX sensor.

When you look at actual sensor sizes you find:
The 5DM2 (FF) - 36mm x 24mm (864mm squared).
The R1 M (S35) - 24.4mm x 13.7mm (334.28 mm squared)
Epic MX (S35) - 27.65x14.58mm (403.1 mm squared)
Epic Dragon (S35) - 30×15.8mm (474mm squared)

So as you can see, an actual FF sensor is basically twice the surface area of the new Dragon sensor. Red does not currently, nor have they announced any release dates for, an actual FF camera. All of Reds cameras now and for the foreseeable future are S35.

My whole point is to say....FF LENSES WILL WORK WITH DRAGON + WHATEVER COMES NEXT. They are made to cover a larger image circle which future proofs them with RED for the foreseeable sensor lineup. Sure Most S35 lenses will cover for the time being, but if the sensor size becomes FF rather than s35 in the near future, your investment choices become more important. Sure there will be s35 windowed versions on a FF sensor, but again, by that time most people will want the larger FF image for vfx, stabilization, reframing, etc. I'm speaking merely in terms of investment. If I as a DP had to choose lenses now theres no doubt I'd choose Master Primes. They are my favorite lenses ever made. But were talking about Canon lenses and covering Dragon and future FF sensors.

 

[Dr. Sassi]

Thanks for the quick reply. been really thinking about that 100mm Macro too. Seen many really like that 24-70 too.

As for a filter, which would you recommend for these (I assume they are all 77mm)? for both UV and general use?

Not all Canon L lenses are 77mm, e.g., the 16-35mm 2.8 L for example is 82mm, ... same for the nicely sharp TS 24,3.5 L. I have tested them on my Scarlet with a single 77mm filter (and a reduction 82 down to 77) no vignetting at 5K. But do your own tests. Vignetting based on limitations in size or glass might be needed to differentiate here ;o)

 

[Sabyasachi Patra]

The Canon EF 100mm f2.8 L IS USM macro lens is nice. Its image stabilisation is good for handheld filming as well. The 70-200 f2.8 L IS II USM lens is another great lens. Very sharp. Yet to test the new 24-70 f2.8 L II USM (production version not yet available).

 

[Robino_J]

Do you need lens support at all time for the 70-200? I have aluminum Canon mount, if that makes a difference..

 

[Jarred Land]

Do you need lens support at all time for the 70-200? I have aluminum Canon mount, if that makes a difference..

I'm not saying it is the "correct" answer.. but I never have. Not once. Our mount with the lockring locked is about 100x more secure than any mount you will ever find on a canon.

 

[Scott Crawley]

As for filters:
I'd just buy UV filters for each one and leave them on permanently like a scratch shield. Then I'd get a polarizer, nd .3, nd .6, nd .9 , nd 1.2. and those should cover you 99% of the time.

Be alert when using a screw on UV filter. If you put that into a matte box and slide other glass on in front of it, you are likely to introduce interior reflections and lose contrast. Keep your UV in front of the stack.