Wide Angle Converter

[Tim Hole]

Although this has been slightly talked about in the past does anyone know of any high quality wide angle adapter that would be perfect for Scarlet for the time being, until RED decide to build one.

 

[RayFrisby]

I was thinking the same thing, Just wondering how the Fixed 8X lens will work with a UV Lens Protector, wide and 2x adaptors. Given that you will be working with higher resolution (3K) any extender or UV Lens Protector would have to be pretty good quality.

I take it the Red Fixed lens has been designed from scratch to be able to resolve 3K

For me the first thing I will be looking for is a high quality screw on UV Lens Protector
next a wide angle converter and 2x Extender

 

[Steve Wake]

It has 77mm threads so screw-on filters should be no problem. Same as a lot of pro Nikon and Canon glass. B+H 010 UV Multicoated are great.
Steve Gibby keeps saying he plans to get wide and tele extenders for his Fixed Scarlets, so maybe he has something in mind. Would be nice if he could chime in.
RED somewhere in the last week said adapters for Fixed were not on the current agenda, so with that confirmation hopefully third parties like Century/Schneider or 16x9 will take the cue and make something.

 

[brian hanson]

I guarantee Century/Schneider will have something in the works. There is a lot of money to be had for a high quality fisheye adapter, i shoot action sports and i'm sure there are many others like myself who need to get ultra wide.

Have diopters been discussed? I'd like to have one of those in my bag as well.

 

[Steve Wake]

Not sure if you really need diopters since it can focus incredibly close. See the setup when the Fixed shot the Canon AF in action on an Epic. But if you want to try one the Canon 500D achromat comes with 77mm threads, so it would fit. Don't know how much of a difference it would make and how much it would degrade the image. Would have to try to find out. I'm sure someone will.

 

[Steve Gibby]

It has 77mm threads so screw-on filters should be no problem. Same as a lot of pro Nikon and Canon glass. B+H 010 UV Multicoated are great.
Steve Gibby keeps saying he plans to get wide and tele extenders for his Fixed Scarlets, so maybe he has something in mind. Would be nice if he could chime in.
RED somewhere in the last week said adapters for Fixed were not on the current agenda, so with that confirmation hopefully third parties like Century/Schneider or 16x9 will take the cue and make something.

Fixed lens Scarlet has internal ND filters, so screw-on ND or a matte box with drop in ND aren't necessary, thus keeping the rig light and mobile.

Clear back when Red announced fixed lens Scarlet they said they would eventually be making a 2x extender and wide converter to match up with the 8x fixed lens. Since then on a few threads they've said the 2x extender and wide converter won't be available when fixed lens Scarlet starts delivery, but left the door open for later production of them. They may not be currently on Red's agenda, but Red knows almost everyone buying a fixed lens Scarlet will also want a 2x and wide converter too - so that's great motivation for Red to make them quickly.

It would be great to have Red make those converters because they would be perfectly matched with the 8x that Red made for the camera. Until Red makes those converters my solution will most likely be Century/Schneider 77mm screw-on HD 2x and HD wide converters. I've used a lot of Century/Schneider converters over the years, with excellent results.

I haven't checked yet, but I'd be surprised if Century didn't already make those 2x and wide HD converters in 77mm screw-on. If they don't, I'd guess they have them already in their plans. In my experience Schneider really stays on top of what's needed in the TV/film marketplace.

IMO a good HD 2x and HD wide converter will be a necessity to realize the maximum potential of the fixed lens Scarlet. They will greatly increase the utility and flexibility of the camera in mobile EFP style production.

 

[RayFrisby]

Thanks Steve ! Any ideas what type of Lens Protector you would go for. Having seen what a stray stone can do to a lens it's on top of my list and something I would be leaving in place when not using a wide or 2x adaptor ?

 

[Steve Gibby]

With the 2x and wide converter I'll use one of the small clamp-on rubber lens shades from Schneider that also accepts a screw-on clear or UV filter. The clear or UV filter would need to be of high-quality glass. The rubber lens shade would also help avoid sun flares on the converters. What I like about the rubber lens shades is they are like a cat's whiskers in tight spaces - you can feel the hood touching obstacles as you move the camera around, without ruining the shots. I'm never worried about the looks of my cameras - nothing is on them that isn't absolutely necessary, and I could care less about my rigs looking like those of a "real filmmaker" Everything is about cost-effective functionality...

The same rubber lens shade with a screw-on clear or UV filter could be used regularly right on the end of the 8x zoom itself. You're on the right track - its a great idea to always protect the end of a lens and with a lens shade to also prevent sun flares in the process.

 

[Robert Rogoz]

I have never seen any converter that would not deteriorate picture quality, still or video- period. The better the resolution, the more it is visible. Century Optics or not, there is no substitute for a properly design lens. If they did not deteriorate you could just buy one lens and use converters on SLR's, but show me good results with such setup!

 

[Steve Wake]

I have never seen any converter that would not deteriorate picture quality, still or video- period. The better the resolution, the more it is visible. Century Optics or not, there is no substitute for a properly design lens. If they did not deteriorate you could just buy one lens and use converters on SLR's, but show me good results with such setup!

I can't argue with that statement, but life is full of compromises, and "good results" are a matter of judgement and overall context.

On the tele end I wonder if a premium 2x will be better than a digital crop? No one will know without trying, and of course the delivery format is a big part of the equation. (Future-proofing for 4K notwithstanding).

On the wide end there is no digital option, but there sure are a lot of issues: cost-related to size and shape of elements (to minimize vignetting and CA's); size and weight; zoom-through ability; flare resistance; etc.

The only reasons I'm even thinking about converters are because RED originally said they would make them, and a pro who has to produce high quality footage (Steve Gibby) is saying he already plans to use them. I would rarely need them for my projects, though I realize others would find them essential.

 

[Steve Gibby]

Robert,

2x and wide converters placed on the end of zoom lenses have widely used in non-hardlined EFP production for 20+ years now. If the converters are designed well for the zoom you use them on, the image degradation is minimal. As Steve pointed out, the designers of the fixed lens Scarlet and lens that it comes with (Red) have previously stated they plan to design and build 2x and wide converters for the fixed lens Scarlet, confirmed they will do just that at some point in the future, and they suggested right here on Red User that until then, there should be quality extender and converter options from other manufacturers available - of which Century/Schneider would be the largest and most prolific.

Lets face it - the fixed zoom lens, small size, and other EFP-friendly features of the fixed lens Scarlet determine that the camera will be a solid performer in mobile EFP style work, which is the largest portion of the motion media industry and buys the most overall equipment worldwide each year - and that same mobile EFP industry is the industry which has widely used 2x and wide converters on the front of zoom lenses for 20+ years.

In the mobile EFP industry we're not creating "Gone With the Wind", in fact we're not doing narrative cinema at all. In EFP we need to get good images with camera rigs that are as mobile as possible, and zoom lenses and converters are the norm in EFP genres of production. In EFP work we roll with very small mobile crews using lightweight rigs, with needs to quickly widen and lengthen the focal length of shots - thus the use of zooms with converters, rather than primes. In EFP genres of production there usually is no time to walk to the next shot - doing so could be dangerous, ruin the mood of the subject, or sometimes even get you killed! Thus we use a lot of converters to solve those needs. Also, the 2/3" sensor DOF of the fixed lens Scarlet is well suited to mobile EFP needs.

Is there image tradeoffs when using converters? Naturally there can be some - but the gains on the other end in terms of quickly wider and longer shots when needed, far outweigh the small image degradations. Also, mobile EFP work delivery platform is not the big screen, but usually television, POP display, DVD, etc. - and for those deliveries a slight degradation of image quality to get those breathtaking wider and longer shots is not the slightest annoyance for the viewing audience or the displaying entities (networks, companies, etc.).

If you're trying to do narrative cinema with fixed lens Scarlet, and your delivery is the big screen, and you're really into interchangeable lenses, then I'd suggest that you just buy and Epic Lite and interchange the lenses all you want. There's no need to try and fit a round peg into a square hole...

I originally bought four Red One cameras (including Red 0008), and I'm probably buying two Epic-M, definitely two Stage 2 Epic X, and definitely two fixed lens Scarlet - and I'm a 30+ year veteran of the TV/film production industry. As you might guess, I long since have a solid comprehension of when to use what camera and lens setup for each of the productions I work on. On Red cameras I use PL lenses when a project calls for it, 35mm still lenses extensively when that's the best choice, and even B4 2/3" HD EFP/ENG zooms on Red (in 2K) when that's the best choice for a project. A fixed lens Scarlet with good 2x and wide converters will have a very important niche for me and my crew's camera kits for the mobile EFP work we do.

Lastly, you mentioned DSLR rigs. Beyond my motion media work, I've also been a 35mm still photographer since 1969 when I got my first Nikon F SLR camera. I still own over twenty Nikon lenses and one Canon lens which I use on Red One and Epic. I also have a Canon 5D which I use regularly for dedicated still photo work. Do I shoot motion with my 5D? Nah - I shoot motion work with my Red cameras - because as I've illustrated above I have an extremely good track record for picking the right tool for the right job.

If you're into DSLR motion footage work, do narrative, and feel you need interchangeable lenses and 35mm DOF - then perhaps you should stick with your DSLR rig. But if you do certain types of moderate-budget narrative work, and especially if you do mobile EFP style work, then IMO you should seriously consider a fixed lens Scarlet with wide and 2x converters as the right tool for your work.

Horses for courses my friend - there no need to kill a gnat with a baseball bat - and there's also no wisdom in hunting elephants with a stick . Food for thought...

 

[Andrew Salter]

Many thanks Steve, your words as always are down to earth, straight to the point from your experiences, always clear and helpful.


Merry Christmas and happy New Year to all

E video Christmas card snowy Hampshire England

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_9IOsdOa5U

 

[Steve Gibby]

Thanks Andrew...as always I'm happy to contribute my thoughts here when I have the time out from my production schedule.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you too