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Wich preamp/recorder are you're favorite and why?

Joel Arvidsson

Joel Arvidsson

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So I have finally decided to go with Vlock I/o expander. Now I need to decide wich preamp/recoder to go with, and for me there is three contenders. Please give me you're thoughts on those options once fore all so I can get going with again! If you rig on your camera, than please tell or post a pic on how you mount it. Thanks all that chimes in.

Beachtek dxa-alexa
https://beachtek.com/product/dxa-alexa/
This seams to be the easiest most straight forward way to get high quality audio into the camera. And I already have two solid recommendations on this. The down side is its has no recorder. But if its sounds great, its still a good option. Also it has no meters, but at the same time I dont have time to watch meters on to devices that often.

Sound Devices mixpre-6
https://www.sounddevices.com/products/recorders/mixpre-6
Great analog preamp, recorder for dual sound. A huge plus for the mounting below the camera as an option, feels less bulky. Good inputs but no xlr outputs. Not sure if this does even matter that much if you want to go in to the vlock expander with an short cable. A downside hear is that its no timecode generator built in.

Zoom f8n
https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/f8n-multitrack-field-recorder
Seams to be packed with all thing you ever need. Great in and out connectivity. Even an built in timecode generator! Downsides are that you cant mount it under the camera as with mixpre.
So I would likely have to get a bottom plate with rails on to mount it on. Digital limiters... But instead "Advanced Look-Ahead Hybrid Limiters".



Edit: it seams to be possible to mount zoom f8n under the camera.
zoom_f8_hero.jpg


9ga6uh.jpg



A side note.
Im trying out the "pull" feature but I se not pull. Perhaps some one else needs to put in there vote for it to show up.
I did checkbox and filled in three alternative.
 
Hi.. Most of the tine I shoot MOS and my partner is always in Dual system setups... but for occasional direct audio jobs we we have looked for sonething that is:

Cheap and reliable for the odd occasion we just want to go into the camera
offers good preamps
Dual channel
48v phantom if needed..
Good limiters
outputs non balanced output for Red DMC2
Light weight so it can be strapped to the camera easily

and importantly for us we can eaily pull it off for 90% of our stuff..

we found this

http://www.filmtontechnik.de/en/prod...ch/dslr-mixer/

IMPORTANT NOTE....and they also made us a tiny 3.5mm to 3.5mm 40euro ground isolator....to make sure you don't get nasty nosie when powering any audio device from the same battery as the camera..

So if you want it for dmc2 make sure you get that cable

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Michael Lindsay said:
Hi.. Most of the tine I shoot MOS and my partner is always in Dual system setups... but for occasional direct audio jobs we we have looked for sonething that is:

Cheap and reliable for the odd occasion we just want to go into the camera
offers good preamps
Dual channel
48v phantom if needed..
Good limiters
outputs non balanced output for Red DMC2
Light weight so it can be strapped to the camera easily

and importantly for us we can eaily pull it off for 90% of our stuff..

we found this

http://www.filmtontechnik.de/en/prod...ch/dslr-mixer/

IMPORTANT NOTE....and they also made us a tiny 3.5mm to 3.5mm 40euro ground isolator....to make sure you don't get nasty nosie when powering any audio device from the same battery as the camera..

So if you want it for dmc2 make sure you get that cable
Click to expand...

Your product link doesn't work. I'm interested in finding out more about that? What's it called?
 
Please fill in your opinions. A few more and I can put in an order on one of those.

It got to be alot of Redusers here with experience with those preamp/recorders.

Thanks all that have shared there opinion in this thread yet!
 
Go for Zoom F8n!

By the way, I am usually always talking from a perspective of a production sound recordist. (and a low to mid budget one at that too, not a high end guy.... no Aaton Cantar X3 recorders for me! None the less, many people might think of me as "high end" just because I own tens of thousand of dollars of sound gear. But really, the proper high end guys would put my sound kit to shame!)

Thus my posts are leaning from that perspective. And from that angle, the Zoom F8n is just an insanely tremendously over the top ultra good value deal! Just, wow.

If a person absolutely must skimp some more on their already tiny budget, then a Zoom F4 is still a way beyond amazing deal! Like the F8n, just with an adjective or two less.

Of course, if a person has the budget/work/clients, then just get a Maxx/Nomad/633/664/688/SX-R4+ instead. And I was very seriously considering that for a while earlier this year that I'd buy one of those, but when the F8n got (pre)announced then I felt that was the right move for me. At least for the next couple of years, while I wait for a 664 mk2 or "something" like that to happen?!

Now as for the MixPre series, for someone who is an aspiring / up and coming PSM (like myself) then they make utterly no sense whatsoever when compared next to the Zoom F series. (not even the MixPre10T, but especially the MixPre3/6!! Hell no)

As the MixPre series are not really primarily targeted at sound recordists, more for YouTubers/videographers/musicians/etc instead. Thus when you really dig into it the MixPre series just has too many gaps in their capabilities/designs for what we need. Thus this is why Sound Devices has their 6 series instead for you to buy.

Meanwhile, Zoom has thrown the kitchen sink at their F series, which is what makes the F4 and now the F8n the best fit for my needs currently.

But I'd never say NEVER, there are I suppose still some limited cases where a MixPre instead might make sense as the "best" choice. Like the example of someone who wants to rig it to their camera, and wants the most extreme minimal configuration then the MixPre3 is freaky small! Perfect.

And their HDMI TC trigger function is a unique capability nothing else except the Tascam DR701D has. So handy for cameras which lack a TC output, but can speak to the MixPre (if they support it).

http://www.red.com/store/products/dsmc2-base-io-vlock-expander

Now it sounds like what you purchased can't do TC out? BUMMER!

So you can't auto stop/start your recorder (such as an F series).

This might give the edge to the MixPre series with their HDMI trigger option, except.... they don't support RED! Oh well.

Thus your best choice is to buy a Zoom F8n, you can keep it jammed to the RED at all time for accurate TC, and you can feed to the RED with automix two tracks into the RED. With ISOs kept in the F8n should you need to tidy up the audio quality to the next level in post.

However, do compare the F8n vs MixPre6 vs MixPre3 in person, you might maybe prefer the small size. But personally, the sheer extra power and awesomeness of the F8n should take the cake instead.

As for the Beachtek? Don't even bother wasting another second of brain power on it. Not worth it.
Not when it is US$800! Maybe maybe maybe if it was like less than a couple of hundred bucks, and you had creditors pounding on your door, so you couldn't spend even an extra penny more on audio. Then maybe it makes sense. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe.
(I'd take a MixPre3 before I'd choose that Beachtek)
If for some reason a person really wanted to avoid the recorder path, and just wanted a very compact pre amp in front to send line level into the camera, then I might suggest one of these two instead: https://www.mozegear.com/p10 https://www.mozegear.com/mini-papi

Personally, I use a Sound Devices MM1 a lot, but that is for my boom op to wear, so the extra bulk doesn't matter. Although, I am using from tomorrow for a film a Sound Devices MP1 on an Arri Alexa Mini to feed it line level for a scratch mic. But that is because I don't have anything smaller like a Mozegear pre-amp.
 
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I went with a Sound Devices MixPre-6. Since I'm not a sound recordist, I don't need more than four channels. The MixPre series is operationally very similar to the 6xx series which I used to use (633) but for me was overkill -- again, cinematographer, not a sound recordist. I'll get more value from using the device as a USB audio I/O than as a full-fledged mixer, which is why I don't miss the XLR output part.

I debated going with a MixPre-3, but decided that the extra XLR/TRS input would be worth it... I have a Facebook gig coming up next week where I'll need to mic four people, and also when doing 360/VR I'll need an option for Ambisonics, which requires four channels for first order... and once again if I go beyond that, hopefully it's a project where we can afford a dedicated sound recordist.

I've worked on a few films where the sound recordist had a Zoom f4, and the results were fine. I like being able to record ISO + mix tracks, and sonically Sound Devices is hard to beat, and also very reliable.

Plus, the MixPre6 is very compact.

Timecode... I have a pair of Tentacle Syncs, so not having a timecode source in the recorder is a minor thing for me. I'm covered.

I tried running audio from my 633 before I sold it into my Epic-W using a Tilta Advanced I/O module, and the results were not satisfactory.

I'm awaiting an OMOD POE (due to arrive today) and I'll test it out probably next week (doing a production this weekend with a dedicated sound recordist, so I probably won't have time or need until Monday). I'm hoping to get at least clean audio into the camera via the 1/8th inch jack on the OMOD POE. Plus it's more compact than the Tilta bigass I/O module... and being on sale for $2K means that while I have to add a v-mount plate (that I already have), it basically provides the same set of I/O options as Red's v-mount expander, but with the addition of FIZ.
 
This thread is great..

I'm in the situation of setting up a DSMC2 one man band doco rig for a shoot where having a sound recordist is not going to be possible, with a top mic on all the time, and occasionally 1-2 lapels also in the mix.

Thought the Beachtek preamp into the camera seemed like a great and compact solution, but flawed for this project as the Expander input on camera is going to record your multiple microphone inputs as just one channel right?

The Mixpre-6 or 3 seem like a good compromise, being able to record indepedently off camera also. It sounds like HDMI trigger isn't a thing with RED right now, but read elsewhere that Atomos devices with cross conversion were passing the SDI trigger signal from camera through to HDMI outputs further down the chain - if this is true with other devices i.e smallHD 500 monitors then may be able to come up with an efficient little system. The Zoom F series seem really large to be attaching to a lighter camera build..
 
Another option might be a Pix-E recorder. You could run an SDI out from the camera to the Pix-E and record synced audio + video there, and if you add one of the Video Devices preamp modules to it, you'd get two channels of Sound Devices preamps to record with.
 
I ordered the mixpre-6 yesterday after a hard battle against the Zoom F8n.
My reasons
I going to have it rigged on the camera most of the times. So smaller footprint is a plus. If or when that changes the Zoom F8 might make more sense.
Listening to comparisons I find that I prefer the audio from the mixpre a little better. It sounds a little more clear to my ears (this is very subjective of course).
I like the less cluttered ui on the display on the mixpre. I know you can somewhat customize it on the F8n but im not sure how much. Im positive I will never ever use the 8 inputs on the F8n. Its alot!
The possibility to get the hdmi triggering working in future is teasing.
The closest video store has closed down so its now a day trip to actually be able to listen to the devices live. And reading about the better headphone out on the mixpre is a deal for me. Curtis Judd said the improvement over the F8 is subtle. I would loved to hear massive, or greatly. Its hard to make a really good choice with no live experience on the two audio devices.

The most I will miss the built in timecode generator on the zoom f8n, it would been really helpful. But Im getting two eternal boxes until next upgrade.

I wish the clock-expander had a time code out. It would have been useful.

That said Im sure I will be very happy with this purchase (and with the f8n if that had been the case).


Know I need advice on good cables to go from the mixpre-6 into the red v-lock expander. What are you mixpre guys/gals using?
From my weak memory, I think there was some problems with the mx using ordinary 3.5mm stereo cables since the once on epic mx from were balanced. But the 3.5mm stereo out from the sound devices is unbalanced. Should you turn of the balanced sound in camera and use an ordinary 3.5mm stereo cable? or what works the best?

What battery are you using to power it when its onboard the camera, and how long are your does this last you?

Im considering getting the hirose adapter and go to dtap, or perhaps use two Sony batteries, but then it seam I gets to bulky. But I never like rechargeable AA batteries. They always get bad so fast.
 
I'm going to try a similar setup out tonight, using a MixPre-D 6 and sending audio from it to my Epic-W via an OMOD Poe.

For timecode I've been using TentacleSync boxes; they're pretty inexpensive, and very tiny, but reliable.
 
So I go the mixpre-6 now and I would not recommend to mount directly under the camera. I think red cameras get little to much of centered. But It might be solved with the right quick release plate.
For you mixpre owners, how do you mount it to the camera? Behind the battery or on the side? Please post or pm me photos of your rig.

Plan b is to get a bottonplate that supports rails both to the front and back. But I love to know how you solved this problem.

I will notice that I have battery issues on my unit. Atleast with alkaline batteries, as they only power it 2-3 minutes before it dies with GP super, and Ikea AA shows its down to 20% after only 10min of run time. Is this a known problem on some units? Also the wingman app is kind of sad. I wish I could control the mixpre more. Here it looks better on the zoom for sure. Otherwise it feels good so far.
 
I leaning hardly on mounting it like that. I think the small rig looks great. But I need to find the right base plate for the rails also. Hope I can get some good recommendations here so I can order this today!
 
I have two plans to rig the mixpre-6 to the epic w.

Plan A
SmallRig Left Side Plate for REDEpic-W 1997.
Getting the left side plate from small hd and mount the mixpre-6 to that.

Plan B
SMALLRIG Red Raven Baseplate 1756
SmallRig Dual 15mm Rod Clamp 1943 x 2
SmallRig Cheese Plate with Dual 15mm Rod Clamp 1093
SmallRig Aluminum Alloy Pair of 15mm Rods (M12-4inch)1049

The goal with Plan B is to mount mixpre-6 from behind the battery, using rods and a vertical cheese plate. But im a little fraid that Im getting in trouble as I want to point the Rod Clamp down.
This is to not block the red epic w vent. But at the same time I might have a problem to mount a quick release mount under the camera, as the dual rod clamps might hit the quick release mount.

Seams the hardest problem is what baseplate to get. I use simple manfrotto quick release plates on all gear. But I would be happy to switch to something better that you can attach from above. I really dont like to slide in the bottom plate as it some times little space on a rig.

Edit. I ordered the left side plate because im in a hurry to atleast have plan A working. But I hope you guys/gals can help me out on plan b aswell. I like to have that as an option aswell. Or similar solution.
 
I like to use hirose to power the camera both using D tap and some times from the wall outlet. But I think the hirose psu is rather pricy. Its this one.
Sound Devices VideoDevices XL-WPH3 45W PSU med Hirose
Would you advice to get this or do you use a one from different manufacturer? It just a little funny that the hawkwood hirose adapter+hirose to dtap+psu adapter cost close to half the price of the mixpre.
 
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