Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Why you should not worry about lenses for 2/3 Scarlet

J

John Welsh

Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Points
0
With Red Scarlet becoming popular, I am pretty sure there will be other manufacturers that will make lenses specifically for the affordable 2/3 brain.

By the way, everyone should forget the number $2500 for the body. With all the batteries, the LCD display or viewfinder, and a couple of lenses, I expect the whole to exceed $6000. Each of the miniPrimes I expect to cost around a grand.

It is very unrealistic for the whole set up to be cheaper than EX1.
With introduction of lenses from other manufacturers, you can expect a $5000 rig, but probably possible only in 2010.

Just my opinion.
 
I see the miniRED's coming in between 400-700. Anything above 700 would kind of defeat the purpose for the whole system in the first place. In my opinion.

I agree that one could easily spend 6k on the 2/3'' set up for a full out professional rig. But having to spend 6k would defeat the purpose of the 2/3'' set up in the first place.

But better to set oneself for disappointment I guess?

I mean the zooms only cost 1,500, and you think a mini prime will cost 1k?
 
I hope Red gives us the option to buy a miniRED primes set for a lower cost per lens, like they are going to do with the Pro primes. I would be ecstatic if Jim and co. offered it for around $2500-3000 for the (4 or 5 lens) set for early buyers.

Btw, what's an 'ex1'? :P
________
AMATEUR VID
 
John Welsh said:
With Red Scarlet becoming popular, I am pretty sure there will be other manufacturers that will make lenses specifically for the affordable 2/3 brain.

By the way, everyone should forget the number $2500 for the body. With all the batteries, the LCD display or viewfinder, and a couple of lenses, I expect the whole to exceed $6000. Each of the miniPrimes I expect to cost around a grand.

It is very unrealistic for the whole set up to be cheaper than EX1.
With introduction of lenses from other manufacturers, you can expect a $5000 rig, but probably possible only in 2010.

Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

I don't know about the final cost of SCARLET systems, and I know you couldn't know the final cost of SCARLET systems!

Unless you have some insider information about the RED pricing you really don't know. Let me be completely honest and say I DON'T KNOW but I bet you could get a scarlet for less than the price of EX1. I believe this because the almost all Canon and Nikon lenses are relatively affordable. And the most obvious reason is the fixed lens rig will be delivered for less than that.

My only point is lets try to qualify our opinions as opinions.
 
Yes but using Canon and Nikon lenses will leave you without a wide lens and make it really hard to shoot with. I guess you could buy just the wide mini-primes, but at that point, I think you'd be better served with a matched set.
 
John Welsh said:
By the way, everyone should forget the number $2500 for the body. With all the batteries, the LCD display or viewfinder, and a couple of lenses, I expect the whole to exceed $6000. Each of the miniPrimes I expect to cost around a grand.

It is very unrealistic for the whole set up to be cheaper than EX1.
With introduction of lenses from other manufacturers, you can expect a $5000 rig, but probably possible only in 2010.

Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

Hmm, it may come in under that. The fixed lens Scarlet with everything you need to shoot comes in at $3,750 and that includes an 8x zoom lens.

The fixed Scarlet with only the zoom comes in at $3k even so the value of the fixed zoom is $500. If RED could produce the mini primes at $500 each that would be $1,500 for a set of three. That would bring the body and primes to $4,000. Adding the modules from the fixed Scarlet would bring it to $4,750.

I'm not 100% clear if the $750 in modules that the fixed Scarlet comes with are detachable. I am assuming they are since you can buy a fixed Scarlet with only the 8x zoom. I am also not sure if those modules will be compatible with the interchangeable Scarlet since the fixed has electronic zoom and auto focus.

We may not know the answers for awhile if Jim doesn't want Sony et al to know what they are up to.
 
Justin O'Neill said:
I'm not 100% clear if the $750 in modules that the fixed Scarlet comes with are detachable. I am assuming they are since you can buy a fixed Scarlet with only the 8x zoom. I am also not sure if those modules will be compatible with the interchangeable Scarlet since the fixed has electronic zoom and auto focus.

We may not know the answers for awhile if Jim doesn't want Sony et al to know what they are up to.
Click to expand...

We'll have to wait after NAB, probably. I work for ENG productions and documentaries and I think that the first paragraph in this thread brings to me a ray of light: I want the best of both worlds, the DNR. the Fps, the shallow depth, the 3K, but I want a comfortable system that will enable me to use the full capacities of ENG lenses, not just mini primes...I hope the mount will be "intelligent" enough for let's say, a Fujinon designed for 2/3" cameras. That would be the final stab on Sony.
 
Steven Swigart said:
I mean the zooms only cost 1,500, and you think a mini prime will cost 1k?
Click to expand...

eblein said:
I want the best of both worlds, the DNR. the Fps, the shallow depth, the 3K, but I want a comfortable system that will enable me to use the full capacities of ENG lenses, not just mini primes...I hope the mount will be "intelligent" enough for let's say, a Fujinon designed for 2/3" cameras. That would be the final stab on Sony.
Click to expand...

What zooms cost $1500? HD quality ENG zooms start around $7k new. You can get some limited still camera zooms for $1500 or less but the true high quality cine zooms start with Reds own 18-50 at $6500 and go up, way up from there. Super 16mm cine zooms from Canon or DP series zooms from Angenieux are all in the $18-20K range a the low end. Truly top line HD and cine zooms for 2/3" or super 16mm run $40k up.
 
Please excuse me. My mind was in the world of DSMC, not the world of exclusive cinema. I was referring to using a canon/nikon lens on a DSMC system.

I realize that cinema lenses are far more expensive.

The 2/3'' market is much different than what the S35 market will be, is the only point I was trying to make.

If people could afford the S35 system, they would get that. miniREDs (edit: and the Scarlet 2/3'') will be competing with other DSLR manufacturers.
 
Steven Swigart said:
If people could afford the S35 system, they would get that. miniREDs will be competing with other DSLR manufacturers.
Click to expand...

The 2/3" Scarlet isn't being promoted as a DSLR (that's been reserved more for the FF35) and Jim isn't recommending SLR lenses for that camera, so I wouldn't expect the miniReds to be positioned to compete with Nikon/Canon per se. That said, while 2/3" Cinema will unquestionably be more expensive than the fixed, I'd be surprised if it was wildly more expensive.

Usual disclaimer: just my opinion.
 
I mean the whole 2/3'' system will be competing with other DSMC systems, not just the miniREDs. The 2/3'' system will be competing with other systems, such as the GH1 HD or the 5D Mark II (which might get manual controls at some point). I'm well aware of the fact that you would not want to use a bunch of nikon primes on the 2/3'' system, unless you wanted strong tele. But people will consider other options before buying into a new system of primes.

IMO, the RED 2/3'' camera is an entry level professional camera, and it will be in the market of a entry level professional camcorder. I would think that high end ENG production companies, etc, would prefer the S35 over the 2/3''.

The purchaser will compare the 2/3'' camera with similar options. The 2/3'' camera has been marketed as an affordable way to shoot RAW and thus pricing is a concern for people interested in the 2/3'' system.

When available I will compare it to other DSLRs with video capability and manual controls. Which I think will be the biggest competition for redMini's indirectly, not directly. (That was the point I was trying to make)

But of course I have nothing but respect for RED this far and what they have accomplished; and hope that I'll be able to invest in a RED system. :cute: But some people here seem to think they will stray off too far from their original intention with the 2/3'' system, IMO. (I hate to repeat myself, but I think the GH1 is competition for the RED 2/3'' system)
 
Kyle Presley said:
$3750 complete fixed kit. This should translate to $3250 complete Cinema kit, sans lenses.
Click to expand...

I concur, with one possible exception... We don't know if a lens mount is included in the price of the brain! Or if the prices listed are literally just the brains themselves and then we have to pay extra for each mount (RED mount, PL, C-Mount, etc..). I really hope they give us a mount with the brain. IMO, I think they should ship the Scarlet 2/3" Cinema with the mini-RED mount installed. That just brings RED one step closer to selling all their new lenses if all their cameras already ship with the right mount.
 
Steven Swigart said:
5D Mark II (which might get manual controls at some point)
Click to expand...

Dream on. Canon will never do that. Maybe they'll sell a MarkIII with maual controls. And limited to 20p then ;-)

And yes, I also think that the GH1, the D90 and the 5D MarkII are competition to the 2/3". But with one big difference. They are all done for Photowork with added Videocapability, while the 2/3" is the other way around. Maybe the GH1 will be an in between thing, but lets face facts. It's a cam that's build for Photos first too.
 
Steven Swigart said:
I see the miniRED's coming in between 400-700. Anything above 700 would kind of defeat the purpose for the whole system in the first place.
Click to expand...

my guess
one mini prime = $1200 to $1900

basing my guess relative to the cost of the red one lenses at red.com
attachment.php
 
xcm said:
Davis, Jim already said that mini prime is about 400 USD!
Click to expand...

As far as I am aware no pricing on mini primes has been mentioned at all,
otherwise I would not have made a guess.
Can u back up your claims with a link please.
Thanks.
 
Sorry guys, I cant find. Jim had a post on an other forum, dvinfo.net, but dvinfo site have been updated... and cant find.. I hope somebody can confirm this info, I am sure not just I read that post...

or Jim could confirm that ...

but we should know:
"Specifications, prices and delivery dates are subject to change"
 
One can only hope. But I expect the mini-primes will be more in the Zeiss ZF series price range if they are well made and mechanically robust as well as good optical performance.
That would make them about 1/4 the price of the PL primes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top