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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Why was Immortals shot on Panavision Genesis?

This is NOT the answer to your question.
However this may give you an Insight to how some DPs choose their cameras.

I worked with a DP who was all about Panavision no matter what, all due to his good experiences renting at Panavision threw-out the years.
He loved the place and loved how they supported him in any situation.
It was not a better camera they offered. It was the better people that came with their rental equipment.
He as the DP of his projects was given the approvals by his producers to spend the money Panavision charged.
That in turn gave him the technical support of highly experienced crew members which always had his back and provided top quality knowledge and services.

Hope that helps.

Luis
 
Oh, yeah what Luis said ... but some people are getting away from that mentality too.

I mean Amazing Spider Man was shot on Epic ... so is the Hobbit and ... well there is a flood coming.

Deakins freaking loves Alexa. Tons of stuff is being done with Alexa (which, for features at least, I agree with Jim is a huge mistake)

James Cameron owns 50 Epics, but he's also partnering with Arri on Alexa M for 3D rigs.

As a DP myself - I like to investigate and test cameras. I have concluded that Epic is "the thing" right now, so any producer I deal with has to start with Epic and convince me to shoot something else. Then again I'll shoot DSLR or HPX170 ... ultimately the guys signing the checks are the ones that make the calls, even if they are dumb calls.
 
I wasn't too sure if Epic M/ Beta was available at the time of their production. If anything, Soderberg's account of the help received from Red during the filming of Che is equally monumental.
 
The DP on Immortals was Brendan Galvin, but I don't see any interviews with him yet detailing the production of the picture. I agree, I was surprised that they'd use a camera this old (it's basically the Panavised 2005 Sony F950). But I also don't doubt that in the hands of a great DP, you can still get great pictures out of it, especially a very effects-heavy, massive green screen project like this.

As always, I think the DP and his crew, plus the colorist and VFX people at the end, have a greater effect on the final quality of the picture than the camera by itself. Don't forget that projects like this often get uprezzed to 4K at the end of the post pipeline.
 
Just to be clear. The Genesis is NOT a Panavised Sony F950. 950's have 2/3 inch chips. The Genesis has a S35 chip and is a whole different beast.
 
Peter Lyons Collister said:
Just to be clear. The Genesis is NOT a Panavised Sony F950. 950's have 2/3 inch chips. The Genesis has a S35 chip and is a whole different beast.
Click to expand...

Correct. It's really more of a panavised F35, except it predates the F35.

My guess is that as the Genesis isn't shifting any more, Panavision cut a really good deal. Happens all the time.
 
Actually in thinking about this ... I'm thinking the reason Genesis was picked is because there are no Panavised Epic's yet. ;)

This Tarsem fellow always is playing with time, so a camera like Epic should always be his go to for main unit photography.

All this said ... given the effects on the film, it wouldn't surprise me if they shot Genesis as A cam for 90+% of the film, but had a VFX unit with cameras with faster frame rates - be that Phantom, high speed film, Alexa or Red.
 
I don't understand why the Alexa is a huge mistake for features...? Unless I'm mistaken Cameron/ Pace are primarily using Alexas for the filming of Avatar 2. It's not my place to speak on their practices because I"m not affiliated with them but I'd say it's probably a safe bet that they tested the Epic and the Alexa (possibly other cameras too) before making their decision. I'm also pretty sure James Cameron directed the top two highest grossing movies of all time....



Alexander Ibrahim said:
Oh, yeah what Luis said ... but some people are getting away from that mentality too.

I mean Amazing Spider Man was shot on Epic ... so is the Hobbit and ... well there is a flood coming.

Deakins freaking loves Alexa. Tons of stuff is being done with Alexa (which, for features at least, I agree with Jim is a huge mistake)

James Cameron owns 50 Epics, but he's also partnering with Arri on Alexa M for 3D rigs.

As a DP myself - I like to investigate and test cameras. I have concluded that Epic is "the thing" right now, so any producer I deal with has to start with Epic and convince me to shoot something else. Then again I'll shoot DSLR or HPX170 ... ultimately the guys signing the checks are the ones that make the calls, even if they are dumb calls.
Click to expand...
 
Brian Robbins said:
I don't understand why the Alexa is a huge mistake for features...? Unless I'm mistaken Cameron/ Pace are primarily using Alexas for the filming of Avatar 2. It's not my place to speak on their practices because I"m not affiliated with them but I'd say it's probably a safe bet that they tested the Epic and the Alexa (possibly other cameras too) before making their decision. I'm also pretty sure James Cameron directed the top two highest grossing movies of all time....
Click to expand...

Because 4K is coming, and its coming faster than I thought.

Red of course...

F65 is coming

Arri has a 4K version of Alexa they are developing

Canon has announced a 4K DSLR

That's the main reason.

Like I said James Cameron owns 50 Epic M cameras. That's 2.9 million dollars of camera without any lenses just a base Epic M kit. I'm guessing he didn't buy those on a whim, but rather that he had a specific use in mind - a specific use that had to do with a picture starting with A and ending with a number.

I mean, I suppose it could be for Battle Angel, but that is listed as a 2016 project, while A2 and A3 are 2014 and 2015 respectively.
 
Alexander Ibrahim said:
Because 4K is coming, and its coming faster than I thought.
Click to expand...

That's irrelevant when you're talking about a picture like Avatar, since the only things in the picture that are "shot" with anything are basically green screen elements. In fact, any talk about a camera choice on Avatar is essentially irrelevant.
 
Immortals was shot mostly in Montréal at the Cité du Cinéma studios. Cité du Cinéma was founded by Mel Hoppenheim, the same man who also founded Panavision Canada in 1965. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Mel Hoppenheim was integral in helping design a new pull-down movement for Panavision cameras?

In any case, the studios in Montréal have very strong ties to Panavision since Panavision originally purchased Mel's rental company as part of the deal in opening and leasing the new studio in 1989. This is probably why Immortals was shot on a Genesis, I'm sure an amazing deal was made.
 
Alexander Ibrahim said:
(which, for features at least, I agree with Jim is a huge mistake)
Click to expand...

every features i have seen in theater shot on Alexa on a sony 4K projector (2K DCP though ) never looked less sharp than RED at all , they looked great , as well as some features shot on Red that did looked great
i still don;t get why people are such a fans of a camera that they don't see the good quality of other cameras ...

even the genesis is actually a very good camera ...the world is not only RED ...especially for a DP ...

ps:in in 2 years time every will project true 4K DCP..well maybe at that point the RED resolution will make a difference , but as far as today , the alexa resolution never feel like a problem ...and also all this features gets finished at 2K for the VFX work (so a re-Release in 4K in not properly an easy option when home cinema will be ready for it ...)

g
 
Peter Lyons Collister said:
Just to be clear. The Genesis is NOT a Panavised Sony F950. 950's have 2/3 inch chips. The Genesis has a S35 chip and is a whole different beast.
Click to expand...
My sincere apologies -- you are absolutely right. (This is what I get for trying to post messages at 5AM.) It's closer to a Panavised F35. All very serviceable cameras that can make good pictures, as I'm sure you'll agree.


Alexander Ibrahim said:
Because 4K is coming, and its coming faster than I thought. Red of course... F65 is coming... Arri has a 4K version of Alexa they are developing... Canon has announced a 4K DSLR...
Click to expand...
Also a JVC 4K camera, though I don't see them as a major player. I suspect there are a few more waiting in the wings. NAB in 2012 is going to be very interesting.

The nightmare for post is that all of these cameras are using different formats, different codecs, and different LUTs. And when people try to use several different cameras in one show (even within the same scene), it's a real mess.
 
Genesis and Sony F-35 now have a external built in 3D camera tracker unit (not sure if this was the reason), but the RAW camera tracker data rather than adding tracker points in post is adding speed in post production. Not sure if there is one for RED yet. Been reading alot of directors using high special effects movies now are opting for these cameras to help speed up the process.. or like BigLu said, maybe the DOP just likes Panavision haha
 
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