Why is sound still like this?

[Christoffer Glans]

Call me cynical, but I see this as just one more potential thing to go wrong. Who manages this device? Who backs it up? Where does the power come from? How do you guard against wireless interference going to and from the cloud? If the data is going in packets, what happens when it becomes desynchonized (which does happen sometimes with packet data)? How do you pull this off if you're shooting in a jungle, or out in the desert, or in downtown LA under a microwave tower, or while driving in a car?

'That sounds the same as the discussion of how to handle raw-format files when the first digital cinema cameras came around, all the opposers of digital cinema were like that. But speaking of driving a car, that is a perfect example where I've never been involved in a production that really managed to get the sound synced right to the camera, so borg cube or not, I think sound already synced to the video directly out of the camera is still a good thing. Screw ups on set always cost both money and headaches in post production.

 

[Marc Wielage]

'That sounds the same as the discussion of how to handle raw-format files when the first digital cinema cameras came around, all the opposers of digital cinema were like that. But speaking of driving a car, that is a perfect example where I've never been involved in a production that really managed to get the sound synced right to the camera, so borg cube or not, I think sound already synced to the video directly out of the camera is still a good thing. Screw ups on set always cost both money and headaches in post production.

You need to get out more! Come down to LA and get a demo of how to sync it up. Again, it's Assistant Editor 101. Hire a kid out of college who has a grasp of whatever editing program you're using, and have them do it for $15 an hour. (Heck, a union assistant editor would cost you $25 an hour for a low-budget show.) When these guys work fast, they're a blur. I can't do it as fast as they can, but a minute per take is pretty easy. If the timecode already matches, it's literally five seconds per take.

Another important reason why not to rely on some kind of massive cloud-like recorder that captures everything: it'll be expensive. Recording the camera files in-camera and recording all the sound files separately in a sound recorder is much, much less costly. Sometimes, simpler is cheaper and better. Relying on complicated technology to do the work of people is fraught with problems, especially when you're confronted with exceptions to the rule. Varispeed ramps is a good one: I've worked on commercials where 50% of the shoot is varispeed in camera... but they want audio for 100% of it, all of which has to be manually synced in post. A cloud solution or an in-camera solution would not suffice for this.

Multi-camera is another complication, and there's no solution for that except to have genlock/timecode boxes on every camera to make sure they're all referenced the exact same way and match the timecode in audio.

BTW, note that my problem situations sited above in my earlier message have no easy technological answer. But: if you had a good on-set sound mixer and a multitrack recorder, every single one of those problems could be solved with a person.

 

[AndreasOberg]

Just a quick question.
Sometimes we use a Canon 5D as a B camera and you can't jam synch timecode. If we have a denecke timecode slate would it make sense to put in the timecode manually into the mov file?
So basically open each mov file and set the timecode to what you see on the slate. I'm not sure if this would save time or take more time than synching it manually.
In the future I will ONLY get cameras that has built in timecode, hehe.
/Andreas

 

[Marc Wielage]

Sometimes we use a Canon 5D as a B camera and you can't jam synch timecode. If we have a denecke timecode slate would it make sense to put in the timecode manually into the mov file? So basically open each mov file and set the timecode to what you see on the slate. I'm not sure if this would save time or take more time than synching it manually.

The problem with doing this is that timecode has to be referenced to the genlock sync within the camera, precisely aligned to the start of each frame. The reference on cheap cameras like the 5D is unstable enough that they won't hold sound sync for long periods of time. You basically have to sync it all up by hand.

In the future I will ONLY get cameras that has built in timecode, hehe.

That's the right way to do it. With genlock and timecode reference, something like a Red would hold sync for a long, long time. But not a camera like the 5D.

I've had no problem getting the 5D to be stable for 9-10 minutes, but it is a chore to sync because it wasn't designed with timecode in mind. Timecode is the railroad tracks on which the production train rides; if the tracks are bad... train won't run.