Why Epic over Scarlet?

[David Doko]

There's always going to be productions that demand premium services and equipment; Studio pictures, national commercials, and TV shows, the same people who rent from Panavision, Clairmont, Keslow etc. The difference in rental rates between an Epic and Scarlet will be negligible to them, they will always go for the extra specs and robustness, along with premium accessories and support options.

This comparison is more relevent for owner/operators, and in that case it would make sense to own s35 Scarlet and rent the EPIC when the higher frame rates, ramping and data rates are needed (as Justin O said).

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Where did you hear greater DR?

According to Graeme's tests with a Stouffer wedge chart the currently shipping Mysterium sensor has 11.3 stops of Dynamic Range. Based on recent tests by Jim on the M-X sensor he estimates 1.5 to 2 stops greater sensitivity (this is using test coding, optimized code may improve this). Assuming a 12 bit linear light record the actual DR might not be any greater mathematically than the current Mysterium in the RedOne but if the bottom 2 stops are significantly cleaner it makes the real world DR closer to the theoretical.

My comment in the earlier post was actually about the Monstro sensor which is expected to have 13 stops of DR and presumably will drive a 14 or 16 bit version of RedCode.

NOTE: Information about the Monstro is based on months old posts from Jim and as we have all learned things change fast so this could be rather different now. Whatever the final specs turn out to be it makes sense that the later generation Monstro sensor tech will outperform the Mysterium and M-X sensors in terms of DR.

Cheers - #19

 

[Peter Matthes]

Two other things to consider:

1) The accessories for both bodies exist at the same price point. A fully built Epic will not cost that much more than a fully equipt Scarlet in % terms.

2) Often clients request the camera with more bells and whistles. I cannot begin to tell you how many times I got a rental because I own a Sony EX3 vs. the EX1. In most ways, they are the same camera. Even when the interchangable lens and SDI out don't come into play, they still request the EX3.

 

[S. Um]

IMHO Red could have created a clear distinction between the Scarlet and Epic lines by making the Epic Monstro based and the Scarlet M-X based (plus the 2/3" and other non-Monstro variants). My guess, just a guess mind you, is that they considered this but did not want to delay Epic until the Monstro sensors were ready.

Greater DR, lower compression ratios and higher frame rates are a potent combination for professional work.

I think this market differentiation may still be in the plans for Red. First they release Epic with the M-X sensor. Some months later, they release Scarlet. Then they upgrade the Epic to Monstro. Maybe some time later they upgrade Scarlet to Monstro, too. But then they upgrade Epic again to a better sensor. So in essence, Epic owners will always have a better sensor (and more features), at least for some time. And that's worth spending the extra money for - if you've got clients that demand that extra edge.

This business model also makes sense from the components standpoint. The image sensor is probably one of the most (if not THE most) expensive components in the brain. One of the reasons it's expensive is because of low yield, especially for higher performance parts. For example, a sensor chip from the middle of a silicon wafer may work at 120 fps, perfect for an Epic. But a chip from the corner of the wafer may only work at 30 fps. Well, instead of throwing it away, why not put it in a Scarlet and make some money off it? It's a win-win situation for both the manufacturer and the consumer.

 

[tj williams]

Yes there will always be changes, there will always be upgrades, so on occasion Jim will have to buy a newer plane too.... Ahhh I remember my film cameras.... 15 year life spans.... It was a golden moment for photogs...

 

[Henri H]

I think you pretty much covered it.

If high frame rates aren't important the additional cost of Epic isn't necessary. Overlay, etc might need a little extra processing but really what you're paying for are framerates.

What are these overlays?

What I wait for Epic:
- very high dynamic range
- global shutter
- more than 12 bits per colour channel
- very wide colour space
Impossible? Possible?