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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Why do I want Scratch? - mmost

Hmm somebody told me that it's possible to get a 30-day trial of Scratch. Was I misinformed?
 
GlennChan said:
Hmm somebody told me that it's possible to get a 30-day trial of Scratch. Was I misinformed?
Click to expand...

SCRATCH is a software solution. I am fond of saying that it is not a proprietary system, but it is an integrated system. Putting together hardware that can consistently deliver realtime 2K RGB and above is not rocket science, but is is non-trivial. If you're serious about looking at SCRATCH and have appropriate hardware, you can work with us to get a trial license.

And we do have something special for people working with RED footage... will be publicly announced soon.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
 
4k, a Killer?

4k, a Killer?

luki said:
Putting together hardware that can consistently deliver realtime 2K RGB and above is not rocket science, but is is non-trivial.

Lucas
Click to expand...

Hello Lucas.

I'm myself interested in Scratch DI and SpeedGrade DI.

As it seems (as today) 4k raw is not supported for realtime debeyer/payback, don't you think the push by RED for 4k material is an handicap for posthouses who wants to build something around RED product or using the 4k (redcode or raw) DOP's and camera owner have been advertised with?

Here I have a guy with 4k material, it's going to be difficult to tell him : you'll never see your 4k until it's printed to 35mm. During post must watch a 2k "proxy" on a 2k projector.

What does mean "and above"?

Are things going to change?

Thanks.
 
Tresch said:
Hello Lucas.

Here I have a guy with 4k material, it's going to be difficult to tell him : you'll never see your 4k until it's printed to 35mm. During post must watch a 2k "proxy" on a 2k projector.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

But remember... w/o a 4k projector there's no way to monitor 4k unscaled. If you have a 4k projector, I'm sure you'll also have a pipeline for prepping 4k material to play back in realtime, and it almost certainly will not include debayer/demosaic on-the-fly. One must expect an added amount of time to deal with that much data.

I haven't felt handicapped by Scratch's 1-2k playback, and when I do my final critical checks I just step through selected frameranges in 4k.

If I was really in need of 4k playback on my system, I'd probably hit up Cineform for their 4k solution - I use cineform a lot as an intermediate vfx format, and it really is amazing. With cineform I think the data rate 'might' be sustainable w/o any really crazy disk i/o... but I have nothing to view 4k unscaled.
 
Tresch said:
As it seems (as today) 4k raw is not supported for realtime debeyer/payback, don't you think the push by RED for 4k material is an handicap for posthouses who wants to build something around RED product or using the 4k (redcode or raw) DOP's and camera owner have been advertised with?
Click to expand...

I think any "push for 4K material" - at least in terms of somehow viewing 4K images during the post process - is being done by people with little understanding of post production or distribution reality, but apparently a very good understanding of buzzwords.
 
I had the oppurtunity due to Nacho from Scratch to have some short demonstration lately , and leaning forwards to do such kind of investment when I do actually order my Redcamera, i must insist that they should offer a real 4k system by next year if they really want to sell a lot of systems for finishing.

I've already been looking at the sony 4k projector, but it doesn't make any sense , if we can't get it out of there. Actually maby aja or some other brand come up with some nice sollution like they have been doing already before. Let's hope so.
 
You have to remember Red was started by someone that can, and at will, can purchase things like a 4 k Projector, without batting an eye.
 
sven said:
I had the oppurtunity due to Nacho from Scratch to have some short demonstration lately , and leaning forwards to do such kind of investment when I do actually order my Redcamera, i must insist that they should offer a real 4k system by next year if they really want to sell a lot of systems for finishing.

I've already been looking at the sony 4k projector, but it doesn't make any sense , if we can't get it out of there. Actually maby aja or some other brand come up with some nice sollution like they have been doing already before. Let's hope so.
Click to expand...

You work 4k from Scratch right now - it's a proven, easy workflow. The only limitation is 4k real-time playback, but viewing 1 or 2k while working, checking 4k frames, and rendering out 4k (you have to render from Scratch, only previews are realtime) is a completely viable workflow.

For 4k playback there are a number of solutions, most of them are DCI and, to my knowledge, require a considerable amount of pre-processing before they're ready to exhibit. That's the reality of 4k right now.

regards,

jt
 
4k projector

4k projector

sven said:
I've already been looking at the sony 4k projector, but it doesn't make any sense , if we can't get it out of there. Actually maby aja or some other brand come up with some nice sollution...
Click to expand...

Any news of RED? They have once upon a time spoken about a 4k projector, didn't they? (and a 4?k minicamera (put me first on list please!!!)).

Barco DP90P 2k DI projector is about 140'000$ If RED does one for 17500$ I'm their first buyer:biggrin: !!

Interesting that all DLP projectors (chrisite,Barco...) are all manufactured by the same company (I think it is Texas Instrument).

See you.

Pat
 
Interesting that all DLP projectors (chrisite,Barco...) are all manufactured by the same company (I think it is Texas Instrument).

I thought Texas Instruments manufactured the DLP chip not the projectors themselves. Am I wrong or missing something?
 
K.Berlin said:
can you tell a little about the hardware?
Click to expand...
Hi KB
Serious hardware dude, if you want to play out 2K RGB.
A couple of firewire drives won't cut it.
Big disk system and a big box to drive it.
Any system that does this requires serious hardware
and big bucks.
Mezmo
 
To get full use of a Scratch system will require a 6 figure investment minimum, if you want something that doesn't take 2 weeks to render 2 frames.
With RedCine, systems will be able to use the included lower rez proxy files to edit with, waiting till final out to deal with 4K, and only if the rest of the pipeline doesn't support Redcine.

You will still have to deal with DPX and other types of sequential images if doing a lot of VFX work. That's where things get sticky. But this is one of the things Scratch does well, conform from different sources. It's way more than a color corrector.
 
zeke said:
To get full use of a Scratch system will require a 6 figure investment minimum, if you want something that doesn't take 2 weeks to render 2 frames.
With RedCine, systems will be able to use the included lower rez proxy files to edit with, waiting till final out to deal with 4K, and only if the rest of the pipeline doesn't support Redcine.

You will still have to deal with DPX and other types of sequential images if doing a lot of VFX work. That's where things get sticky. But this is one of the things Scratch does well, conform from different sources. It's way more than a color corrector.
Click to expand...

Hey Zeke,

Thanks for the kind words - but I've sold many SCRATCH systems for a lot less than 6 figures... at list price.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
 
I'm living proof that you can Scratch 'on the cheap'. I have a very inexpensive system running scratch.

First, please note that this is not the permanent system I'll be running Scratch on, it's a test system that I whipped together within the budget limitations of a commercial I am currently producing & finishing.

When I do plunk down dollars for a real system it'll be a good bit beefier, but this system is blowing my mind how well it works with Scratch and how cheap it was, making me re-think what kind of investments are necessary to run this software with 4k redcode.

Through cunning use of Ebay & Fry's I've managed to put the entire hardware system together for under $2200!

That includes overclocked core2 quad, Quadro FX 5500 (not sdi), 1.5tb striped raid0 (external, fw800 - this is the slowest part of my system for now, and 4gigs of ram. Until 64 bit OS & software is available I just don't see the point of purchasing more ram.

If I'd gone with my normal system suppliers this probably would have cost @ $3-4.5k, but that's still very cheap. Add a few more thousand for an eSata or better RAID playback solution and you're still coming out ridiculously cheap.

I can play back 4k redcode in 2k hi quality mode in real-time on this absurdly inexpensive workstation. 2k and 4k DPX is another story, I'd need waaaay faster disk system for this, I'm currently planning out my permanent RAID playback solution.

Anyhow, it's an interesting experiment, not recommended to everyone, but it's certainly possible to custom build a system capable of running Scratch with 4k redcode for a very reasonable sum of $.

In the end each project/facility's specific storage & display needs are going to make the largest impact on a Scratch system's cost. If you require SDI output, that's definitely going to add $4-6k if you can even find a Quadro with SDI out these days (the new one's aren't out yet, I think). And obviously a NETAPP or two will add a few $$$...

cheers,

jt
 
I was referring to at least 3 seats with a good sized SAN, with each workstation running the latest dual quad core xeons, 32gig ram, dual ATI FireGL V7600, at least 4G fiber if not infiniband. dual monitors, at least one capable of loading LUTs and proper calibration. storage backup (LTO....)



Not including facilities expenses and expendables.
 
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