Why commercials are shot only on REDs and Alexas

[Christopher Mills]

Not sure that buying Either Camera is going to meet your goals.

Not sure that buying Either Camera is going to meet your goals.

If you are working in TVC pro world, the main camera is probably not going to be owned by anyone on the shoot. This is because the spot may require very specific accessories to achieve the creative work that the client has approved. If you are trying to develop your reel and your brand, then the price of a camera will be better spent on personal development and rentals than in trying to duplicate all the specialty shot supporting hardware that you *might* use on any one spot.
This means, making a crazy great short film showing of your dp skills will look better than an inventory list of what camera package you struggled to buy.

I am someone who owns and has owned a ridiculous amount of gear, and it has eventually paid for itself, but the curve on how much profit each camera body makes before a newer one is expected by the client keeps getting lower.

Now, if you buy lenses, lights, tripods, filters, a grading monitor, a good field monitor, all these things will improve your work and can be billed to projects.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

You are operating from a very narrow point of view.

You mean...I am stubbornly stuck at my point of view and failing to consider and accept other perspectives and input even if it may be based on years of research, practical application and may bring benefits and improve my workflow ?

I am working on expanding my horizons so fingers crossed.

I understand Hrvoje, that you have to promote your product

No Jake, that is not someting you understand but what you project due to the subject matter and related elements of the discussion.

I don't form my statements based on wishful thinking nor attempt to project reality on self-interest and don't take very seriously mindsets who do. The principle of bias and its consequences can be applied to matters outside of the grading room as well.
Solutions are made based on research and findings and statements are made on same foundations.

and I generally stayed away from the subject, but because you addressed me directly, I have to admit, that frankly, I'm not a fan, sorry.

No need to be sorry, all cool. I understand your perspective.

I don't invest much effort into promoting the tools I make and not interested in fans. It is however beneficial for the whole domain, for each to offer specific insights which help avoiding oversimplifications and misconceptions and bring benefits to fellow men if many principles and their potential in general are not overlooked.

I just never understood this business of buying and selling pre-made LUTs.

Allergenic properties of lookup table based image transformations affecting post production creatives are understandable due to recent "colorist in a box" mentality.

If we step away from that over-simplistic and undervaluing principle of reasoning, we may notice much more serious and complex purposes of this type of tool, in which case we can not only avoid "colorist in a box" mentality but also avoid colorists becoming stuck in a box.

As I had mentioned, various modern cameras and a myriad of deliverables makes LUTs approach moving forward unmanageable, plain and simple.

And as it's obvious to many, a lot of cameras, recorders and post production tools make LUT approach very manageable and practical to many. Which if adequately implemented, does not screw with post but empower it.

So either/or mentality will always utilize only half of the glass.

BTW, it's a well known fact, that at least Kodak film was always optimized for Caucasian skin reproduction and it was less so for any other types of skin. For obvious reasons, Fuji was much better at asian skin reproduction. And Agfa always was a reflection of European sensibilities in low film saturation and contrast in reproduction of pale European skin...

Those were analogue image capture mediums with chemical properties pre-determining technical picture properties, and you are referring to a "look" of a recording medium itself. Digital domain is free from chemical properties and has other issues. Issues which can be addressed by camera-specific signal treatments.

Lookup table can achieve many things if it is perceived as a tool , not designed to replace work but optimize it with improved results. It can help stabilize noise behavior. It can affect only specific tone of yellow on Wednesdays.

And it can help getting referent imagery.
Not just to a monitor.

That is possible today and requires the body of a LUT.
Not CDL. Not IDT.

This puts more creative decisions in hands of a DoP and the colorist. Instead of just leaving those to a box of electronics...then attempting to fix them in post every single time with rudimentary and often misleading reference, with additional digital quantization signal deterioration and deviation baggage piling up...for some reason.

It is easy to assume that few minutes of work can achieve same or superior results than a specific transformation which takes more time and resources for analysis, design, testing and optimization than a full feature grade...and although that train of thought may bring more pleasurable initial feelings for the observer, it doesn't resonate well with reality.

 

[jake blackstone]

You mean...I am stubbornly stuck at my point of view and failing to consider and accept other perspectives and input even if it may be based on years of research, practical application and may bring benefits and improve my workflow ?

I am working on expanding my horizons so fingers crossed.



No Jake, that is not someting you understand but what you project and suggest to others in this discussion due to the subject matter and related elements of the discussion.

I don't form my statements based on the solutions I make nor attempt to project reality on self-interest and don't take very seriously mindsets or business entities who choose that M.O.
Solutions are made based on research and findings and statements are made on same foundations.



No need to be sorry, all cool. I don't invest much effort into promoting the tools I make and not interested in fans.

It is however beneficial for the whole domain, for each to offer specific insights which help avoiding oversimplifications and misconceptions and bring benefits to fellow men if many principles and their potential are not overlooked.



Allergenic properties of lookup table based image transformations affecting post production creatives are understandable due to recent "colorist in a box" mentality.

If we step away from that example and mentality we may notice much more serious and complex purposes of this type of tool.

I think you are confusing me with someone who is interested in having a conversation with you. Sorry again for refusing to indulge you in a discussion about your products. Besides, this thread already veered miles off the original track. I had openly expressed my feelings about dubious claims using some pre-made LUTs in general and about using a LUT based workflow in particular. I see no real benefit in revisiting the subject. On the other hand, please feel free to have a different point of view and to continue to sell whatever you sell...

And as it's obvious to many, a lot of cameras, recorders and post production tools make LUT approach very manageable and practical to many. Which if adequately implemented, does not screw with post but empower it.

Please read my other post, where I tried to explain the difficulties of using a LUT based workflow.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...s-and-Alexas&p=1731539&viewfull=1#post1731539

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

I think you are confusing me with someone who is interested in having a conversation with you. Sorry again for refusing to indulge you in a discussion about your products. Besides, this thread already veered miles off the original track. I had openly expressed my feelings about dubious claims using some pre-made LUTs in general and about using a LUT based workflow in particular. I see no real benefit in revisiting the subject. On the other hand, please feel free to have a different point of view and to continue to sell whatever you sell...

There are
a) zero "dubious claims" about specifically designed look up tables (by anyone) in any posts I made
b) zero attempts here of selling you or anyone anything.

There is also zero intent of taking any sweeping statements seriously.
You are of course free to project reality based exclusively on what you see and have experience with.
Some of us can only offer a different perspective for consideration but forcing it to be considered makes little sense.

As for the tone....looks like someone needs a hug. I know from experience post can get very frustrating at times.
Sending you a hug, Jake.

Please read my other post, where I tried to explain the difficulties of using a LUT based workflow.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...s-and-Alexas&p=1731539&viewfull=1#post1731539

I read your post. There is a whole world existing outside of that box.
And it is larger.

 

[jake blackstone]

Sending you a hug, Jake.

I read your post. There is a whole world existing outside of that box.
And it is larger.

You're funny and you did made me laugh, especially the "larger" comment, thanks:001_smile:

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

You're funny and you did made me laugh, especially the "larger" comment, thanks:001_smile:

Hugs & kisses



Okay just hugs.

 

[Diego Gagliardi]

Did you rent the FS7? Or own? I suppose most DPs will rent or have the production companies rent according to budget right?