Why can't we all just get along?

[Joseph Hutson]

Generally, the people at reduser are friendly.

GENERALLY. Not all of them have been particularly nice to me the last couple of days.:tongue:

 

[David Mullen ASC]

It's hardly surprising that a forum site used by people who shoot both film and digital will have a different set of opinions than a user site for people using a particular digital technology.

I mean, how many diehard film purists post regularly on DV.Com. DVInfo.Net, RedUser.Net, etc.? These are sites that cater to people shooting digitally so it's hardly surprising that they have a more positive attitude towards digital (and a certain percentage have a ridiculous prejudice against film...)

Cinematography.Com has a wider mix of people and some are quite opinionated. There are three or four people in particular who are quite critical of all things digital -- so what? It's not like you can't find people here who are critical of film.

Most of us work for a living, using all sorts of technologies, and don't have time for purists, fanatics, whatever. But some people express their particular prejudices so clearly and consistently that they are beyond arguing with. On both sides of the issue. There are people here living in denial that film is still a major player in production worldwide, just as there are people living in denial that film will be transitioned out eventually for digital production.

 

[Thomas Mathai]

I didn't know clay was taken over by CGI, what replaces bronze and marble?

 

[laguun]

Most of us work for a living, using all sorts of technologies, and don't have time for purists, fanatics, whatever. But some people express their particular prejudices so clearly and consistently that they are beyond arguing with. On both sides of the issue. There are people here living in denial that film is still a major player in production worldwide, just as there are people living in denial that film will be transitioned out eventually for digital production.

Even as red is outselling anyone in the 35mm space now - the transition will take several years. It will be a highly interesting period once Nikons, Canons etc also enter the high-res moving image club.

Also, different project make different cameras recommendable.

Today, no matter if 4K red/origin/phantom, 1080p/2K hdcam/gegenis/d20/si, 35mm film (from vintage to brandnew) or ultracompact digital , every system has its sweet spot as well as its disadvantages.

I am very glad to have the choice between the formats here in our camera pool. For us, digital has become the preferred method for most productions.

 

[Sam Roberts]

I just feel that RED is bashed unnecessarily on cinematography.com and that newbs with a silly question are unnecessarily ostracized on reduser.net. There are some out there who will never accept any amount of change from the status quo, no matter how revolutionary. On the other hand, when people come to red user with questions, no matter how silly, we should be polite and answer to the best of our ability. Most people who come with questions come as a last resort because they don't know were else to go.

When i first arrived in the early spring I did find a certain amount of newbie bashing going on. I think new people are really expected to spend hours searching through this website first to get their questions answered THEN politely ask in a new thread. Which would be fine except the search engine here is not great so finding answers that way can be a daunting task. There is a enormous amount of information here now and it is scattered all over the place. The FAQs are pretty good but because the camera is so flexible and can be used for such a wide variety of jobs in any number of configurations, people tend to have very specific questions pertaining to their particular way of using the camera.

As with any group of people with a special kind of knowledge, there tends to be the situation where many are so experienced and so knowledgeable that they forgot what people don't know. Some questions are so basic that often they are ignored or the answer is way too complicated for a newcomer to understand. This is why engineers should never write user manuals..:biggrin:

And because we are mostly guys here there is a certain amount of macho posturing both here and over at cinematography.com. I suppose it is an inborn natural competitiveness guys have sometimes. They tend to want mark their territory. And because film and digital imaging is this strange mixture of art and science, there is a certain geek factor at play when it comes to the gadgets and gizmos that we use. And geeks tend to hold their knowledge pretty close to their chests and think that their way of doing things is best, it makes them feel special...:bleh:

There is also a territorial split between film and video guys here and over at cinematography.com although this gap is narrowing at lightspeed and in a few years won't exist at all.

But once in awhile someone here will point out that as important as gear and what it will and will not do is, the more important part of the job is the creative, artistic side and that is what we really ALL have in common whether we shoot Super 8 or Panavision.

I think we all need to keep in mind that we were all newbies once and that really the only difference between the 50 year old veteran and the 20 year old newbie is knowledge (OK, experience too, but that's another topic) and sharing knowledge and explaining things simply and clearly is the mark of a real pro and perhaps when our newbies have gained a lot of knowledge and experience they too will be generous with those coming up behind them.

just my 2sense

 

[Stephen Williams]

We use HMI - tungsten is a poor choice for red. 9 is easy, 10 requires skill. 11 is, imho, "lab".
.

Hi,

Whilst I agree tungsten is a poor choice for red, HMI's don't look as nice as tungsten , corrected tungsten or real daylight.

I like using very small fixtures, the choice with HMI's is not as good as with tungsten. HMI's are also expensive, flicker free balasts (requires all the time for Red) also are also noisy.

Stephen

 

[Noah Kadner]

Gotta admit I haven't been over to cinematography.com in forever and probably won't ever bother again. Life's too short to be living in a forum that's held hostage by a couple of luddites. The whole digital is never as good as film argument is becoming less relevant every day and at a certain point will sound like the folks who argued for horse-driven carriages and against aeroplanes.... etc.

Conversely, as a forum admin for several online forums like Creative Cow, 2-pop etc I consider it poor management. There's a delicate balance between freedom of information and enforcement of decorum but it is critical to the overall well-being of a forum. I'd much rather be in a place that's a safe haven for fanatics than a shooting gallery for differing opinions. Most of those naysayers are too busy shooting down digital acolytes than actually shooting film anyway so I find them doubly off-putting. :gun:

Noah

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

When i first arrived in the early spring I did find a certain amount of newbie bashing going on. I think new people are really expected to spend hours searching through this website first to get their questions answered THEN politely ask in a new thread. Which would be fine except the search engine here is not great so finding answers that way can be a daunting task. There is a enormous amount of information here now and it is scattered all over the place. The FAQs are pretty good but because the camera is so flexible and can be used for such a wide variety of jobs in any number of configurations, people tend to have very specific questions pertaining to their particular way of using the camera.

As with any group of people with a special kind of knowledge, there tends to be the situation where many are so experienced and so knowledgeable that they forgot what people don't know. Some questions are so basic that often they are ignored or the answer is way too complicated for a newcomer to understand. This is why engineers should never write user manuals..:biggrin:

And because we are mostly guys here there is a certain amount of macho posturing both here and over at cinematography.com. I suppose it is an inborn natural competitiveness guys have sometimes. They tend to want mark their territory. And because film and digital imaging is this strange mixture of art and science, there is a certain geek factor at play when it comes to the gadgets and gizmos that we use. And geeks tend to hold their knowledge pretty close to their chests and think that their way of doing things is best, it makes them feel special...:bleh:

There is also a territorial split between film and video guys here and over at cinematography.com although this gap is narrowing at lightspeed and in a few years won't exist at all.

But once in awhile someone here will point out that as important as gear and what it will and will not do is, the more important part of the job is the creative, artistic side and that is what we really ALL have in common whether we shoot Super 8 or Panavision.

I think we all need to keep in mind that we were all newbies once and that really the only difference between the 50 year old veteran and the 20 year old newbie is knowledge (OK, experience too, but that's another topic) and sharing knowledge and explaining things simply and clearly is the mark of a real pro and perhaps when our newbies have gained a lot of knowledge and experience they too will be generous with those coming up behind them.

just my 2sense

This should be the first post we always get to see when logging on to REDUser This where true wisdoms words.

ESPECIALLY ABOUT THE SEARCH ENGINE!!! I think that's the downfall with REDUser. I know the site inside out, but if I want to try to find posts I remember to have valuable info, even I can't find them again.

Hi,

Whilst I agree tungsten is a poor choice for red, HMI's don't look as nice as tungsten , corrected tungsten or real daylight.

I like using very small fixtures, the choice with HMI's is not as good as with tungsten. HMI's are also expensive, flicker free balasts (requires all the time for Red) also are also noisy.

Stephen

I agree completely. The argument - why not just shot daylight, that's what the sensor is made for - is just a another way of saying.... the camera is not good enough.

I know the guys are working hard on it and I hope that this will soon be an issue of the past.

Gotta admit I haven't been over to cinematography.com in forever and probably won't ever bother again. Life's too short to be living in a forum that's held hostage by a couple of luddites. The whole digital is never as good as film argument is becoming less relevant every day and at a certain point will sound like the folks who argued for horse-driven carriages and against aeroplanes.... etc.

Conversely, as a forum admin for several online forums like Creative Cow, 2-pop etc I consider it poor management. There's a delicate balance between freedom of information and enforcement of decorum but it is critical to the overall well-being of a forum. I'd much rather be in a place that's a safe haven for fanatics than a shooting gallery for differing opinions. Most of those naysayers are too busy shooting down digital acolytes than actually shooting film anyway so I find them doubly off-putting. :gun:

Noah

Funny enough I've only spent maybe an hour altogether on these site. Cinematography.com I've been on ones. A friend said I should get on because they were discussing things that concerned me. I went on and it looked interesting, then I saw a lot of "silly" remarks and extreme opinions. Went and goggled for the different guys showreel etc, laughed so hard it made my day and knew I didn't need to bother to go to that site ever again.


Fredrik Callinggard

 

[David Mullen ASC]

I've shot most of "Manure" on HMI's and Kinos, but now that I've moved to another stage that had to be prerigged with tungsten, for cost and time reasons (we were using the bulk of our HMI package at the time while the rigging was going on), I can say that there are a lot of problems with using HMI's and Kinos for stage work.

The main advantage (other than the fact that the RED prefers daylight) is that it is easy to get warm lighting effects by using a tungsten light!

Otherwise, I'm dealing with singing HMI heads, ballasts that keep switching off due to heat and dust, the RED picking up the subtle green casts of various units, particularly the Kinos, and the simple fact that faces seem to look nicer in tungsten light.

But I do miss how easy it is to get a sunset effect by using a tungsten light while at the 5600K setting...

 

[Ross Birkbeck]

ESPECIALLY ABOUT THE SEARCH ENGINE!!! I think that's the downfall with REDUser. I know the site inside out, but if I want to try to find posts I remember to have valuable info, even I can't find them again.

Fredrik Callinggard

(I search this place with Google putting 'reduser' at the front. Actually gets results...)

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

(I search this place with Google putting 'reduser' at the front. Actually gets results...)

LOL


fred

 

[Dane Brehm]

Welcome to the Democratization of Digital Camera Technology...

Thank you Globalization!

 

[mezmo]

I've shot most of "Manure" on HMI's and Kinos, but now that I've moved to another stage that had to be prerigged with tungsten, for cost and time reasons (we were using the bulk of our HMI package at the time while the rigging was going on), I can say that there are a lot of problems with using HMI's and Kinos for stage work.

The main advantage (other than the fact that the RED prefers daylight) is that it is easy to get warm lighting effects by using a tungsten light!

Otherwise, I'm dealing with singing HMI heads, ballasts that keep switching off due to heat and dust, the RED picking up the subtle green casts of various units, particularly the Kinos, and the simple fact that faces seem to look nicer in tungsten light.


But I do miss how easy it is to get a sunset effect by using a tungsten light while at the 5600K setting...

Hi David,
Not having the ability to control heads on dimmers from one location or rack would be the biggest bummer for me using HMI and Kino in a studio situation. Do you have a solution for this on "Manure"?
I've also noticed that Kino's will change color temp the longer they burn. Another pain in the A.
Mezmo