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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Why can't Phantom power stay on????

Tom Visser said:
...although I can see your arguments and I don't mean to criticize anyone, but it is amazing to me the number of people that are hooking up microphones directly to the camera.
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Although in most professional environments a sound person is hired and therefore mixes in the bag and sends a line level out to a digital audio recorder and/or camera, there are times when you need to run a mic to the camera and actually use that audio. Run and gun doc without a sound person, very low budget indy film, one man band corporate, nature shooters who grab audio as well.

I am finding that Red is a lot more versatile than I originally thought it would be. The new audio board makes this even more the case. In this kind of economy, being versatile is a huge benefit.

As for Phantom Power, almost all professional cameras have an on/off switch. My only guess as to why Red has elected to automatically switch this off on powerdown is that it's not good practice to hook a condenser microphone to an already phantom powered input. Therefore, maybe what they are thinking is you'll hook up your mic before you turn on the camera and then you will go into the menu and turn on phantom power, which is the safe method for doing this. However, reality is that there will be times you'll want to change mics with camera still on or switch battery and use the same mic. So, it kind of gets back to the way most cameras act which is when it's switched on, it's up to you to properly hook up the microphones and follow phantom power procedures.
 
My understanding of this, recalling a long ago discussion with someone from RED, was that this was an intentional decision as a result of the audio hiss when using Phantom power previous to the audio board upgrade, and that once all the camera's were up to date, it would be changed.

Basically, RED wanted to make sure that clean audio coming from a mixer or preamp didn't get trashed because someone left the phantom power on a line.

Don't hold me to this exactly, the discussion was nearly a year ago, my memory may be failing me.
 
Agree, strange safety feature. The biggest danger is not to fry some pice of tech with 48V. A bigger tragedy is LOOSING audio!!!!
 
I can honestly say in the 20 plus years of using broadcast equipment I have never fried a
mic for having phantom or T power on when not needed.

Probably more to do with bad audio on the old boards. I betcha dollars to donuts this will go away in the next build.
 
You guys need to stop calling bugs features. Having ANY critical camera setting change when rebooting is just plain wrong. The Red reboot is already the most painful 75 seconds on set, but having to reprogram the camera afterwards?!?

It is my understanding that properly built audio gear cannot be harmed by phantom power so I don't get the "it's a safety feature" comments.
 
Brent J. Craig said:
You guys need to stop calling bugs features. Having ANY critical camera setting change when rebooting is just plain wrong. The Red reboot is already the most painful 75 seconds on set, but having to reprogram the camera afterwards?!?

It is my understanding that properly built audio gear cannot be harmed by phantom power so I don't get the "it's a safety feature" comments.
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In addition to a design decision that a manufacturer might make to not actively protect against it, it also requires a flaw or failure on the cable / connector, such as a shorted cable. I don't think that there is as much of an uproar about it now, though, because so few people are really attaching mics directly to the camera and really... you should not be - even if you are using that excuse that your "just a doc" guy or doing "run and gun". Run and gun is even a more compelling reason to get an external pre/mixer. You have such chaotic and varied situations, that you need to be able to react fast to changing acoustic situations.

Imagine, if you will, if you AC had to go into a menu system to change the focus. That really is the best parallel that I can make about those that insist on using on board camera mic pres and probably also not using a proper boom op. It is at the end of the day, a simple disrespect of the audio production process. When talking about a $30k+ camera system (much more to be realistic), the excuse, "we can't afford an audio guy" doesn't hold a lot of credence to me. Or at least, it illustrates that you went out and bought a Ferrari but forgot to budget enough for the gas you'll need to drive it.

My excuses aside, yes RED needs to change the menuing / settings on the next build. They are definitely the odd man out when it comes to the way their camera is set up and I'd rather bill the production $1,500 when they blow up an MKH 60 than to have to reshoot something, as realistically the first scenario would be few and far between, if ever.
 
Just been away for a week doing a test shoot with no money and not enough time and prep. It happens! There wasn't physically room for a sound guy and mixer and cables in some of our shooting situations. This "feature" screwed several otherwise useable takes. :-(
 
Phantom Power

Phantom Power

You guys need to stop calling bugs features. Having ANY critical camera setting change when rebooting is just plain wrong.
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O.K I'll offer you my standard answer to this kind of bug / feature debate then....


There are features, there are bugs and there are characteristics.

Features are pretty obvious - they provide a desired operational function.

Bugs are obvious too - something that is supposed to work doesn't.

Characteristics lie in the middle. As in that's an operational characteristic.

- This may be something you rather the system didn't do, but it is what the system is supposed to do in that circumstance.



Now to the Phantom Power issue. On Rev A audio boards, this is its operational characteristic.

However on Rev B audio boards the latest firmware - Build 18 V3.6.4 - will maintain Phantom Power (if enabled) across power cycles.
 
Thanks Stuart - I'm REALLY pleased phantom power will be staying on! Having to do retakes for losing sound has been a real pain.
 
For those mounting a shotgun on the camera. Make sure your mic cradle is well cushioned as some cradles will pick up vibration from the RED Drive if it's mounted on the rails (at least with the carbon rails) which sounds like a nasty 20hz hum on the sound track.
 
Looks like build 3.6.4 is still buggy as it relates to Phantom power. When switched on, then camera is rebooted, it still shows 48V on the screen BUT it doesn't seem to be providing the power. Turning 48V off and on again enables it, so functionally there's no change from build 17 v3.4.1 to build 18 v3.6.4.

Tested using Mogami 48V mic.

HTH

Paul
 
Phantom Power

Phantom Power

Note that this function only works with the Rev B audio board.

But if you see this happening with a Rev B board (on cameras since Sept 15) please send me a P.M.
 
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