Who wrangles, and how?

[Cam Crowley]

If you are using a mac and serious about your DIT duties then R3D Data Manager is money well spent IMO.

But nothing is as thorough when it comes to checking footage as actually watching the clips play through from start to finish and checking them against the camera reports. And this includes all the copies of the footage.

Cam

 

[Chris Parker]

zakaree, i hate to break it to you, but the term DIT is a misnomer when dealing with RED. A TRUE DIT works on set and actually paints the digital picture with other HD and digital cameras, that don't shoot RAW. The fact that RED shoots RAW makes the RED tech job more a hybrid of DIT and data monkey. By virtue of REDs system, a DIT is not needed on RED Shoots. Sure you need to know the menu, and how to troubleshoot, and how to read exposure meters, but it is a far cry from what TRUE DITs do. Red/Data tech is a better description....

 

[Conrad Hunziker]

How do you double check?

...
Of course I don't completely trust software either, so I watched samples of a number of shots from each backup drive. What's more, the md5 checksums (and R3D Mgr can do even more secure checksums) WILL tell you if you have digitally identical files... but they won't tell you if the original file was any good to begin with :biggrin:

Precisely - However, by default if you know the MD5 sums on 2 copies are correct from the original, and watch the copy on backup 1, then backup 2 must also be correct.

I think the original poster was talking about if the file was copied over - i.e. a filesystem check. But again that only means that the files are there, not that they are correct. By doing a filesystem check, md5 check and viewing the proxy file (so you can see each frame) you have checked all possible methods for corruptions.

R3D Data Manager checks for two of the three. We are looking into ways of doing the third (with Red's help)

 

[Dane Brehm]

Though Checksums and Verification are incredibly important to maintaining integrity from drive to drive, I feel that paired with a calibrated monitor and a UPS (uninteruptable power supply) are a mission critical part of the Data Tech's job.

On commercials and episodics, I am typically working the camera from the body back working closely with the 1st&2nd to assure the DP is taken care of and always ready to shoot.

As a 600 DIT I've been shoe-horned into traditional film heirarchy but a traditional DIT's job is to match multiple camera's pictures and allow a camera's such as the F900's 10-bit 4:2:2 capture fit into a 8-bit 3:1:1 HDCAM tape. They also manage exposure, gamma, knee, etc via a paintbox.

a Red Tech's short list of duties (I am also a Phantom, S.Two, and Codex Tech)

- all Sound, HD Video and Timecode cables are attached and functional.
- TC is sync'd via Lock-it or Deneke box
- All drives/cards are formatted and labeled
- Verify Camera Data and Transfer to Redundancies, IT
- DP/Directors monitors are Calibrated.
- Assure Modulus or Wevi HD wave is operational.
- Manage and Define LUT with DP
- Assure Editorial and Post's specific needs are met
- Assist DP with Exposure
- Organize and Anticipate all Red specific issues
- Anwser Questions about Workflow even recommend best workflow for job

I'm sure there are a few thing's I'm missing. Just Understand that each time you do a Red Job your representing The Red Camera and the Red Tech's alike

 

[Troy Smith]

Sounds like Code Sector is a great tool to use for the pc side at least until r3d manager releases for windows.

Thanks for posting the link to Code sector.

 

[hoylecd]

Why are we calling this position DIT?

Why are we calling this position DIT?

I find it a misnomer to call a data wrangler a DIT. As others have pointed out, this is already a very well defined position, and just because the RED doesn't necessarily require one, does not mean the job has suddenly vanished. I think Digital Loader is by far the best term used to describe the individual who is; backing up media, creating dailies, working with post. My reasons for this are simple, a Loader already exists in the film world, and while a Film Loader and Digital Loader don't match up perfectly as far as responsibilities are concerned, they are very similar. This also allows for people working in the film world to easily understand the position. Calling yourself a DIT when in fact you are a Digital Loader can mislead what a crew may expect from you. A Digital Loader doesn't have to be working on a RED shoot. They could be working with SxS media, or P2, in which case labeling yourself as a DIT could really cause problems. Imagine showing up on set and the D.P. is expecting you to paint two HVX200s. If your a Digital Loader, you'll have neither the knowledge or tools to pull this of, and end up with a very unhappy camera department. Even terms like Data Wrangler, or Digital Asset Manger are better suited for the position of backing up media. Hopefully local 600 will push a term (digital loader, data wrangler, etc...) that will clear up this mess and stop the confusion this position seems to carry with it.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

zakaree, i hate to break it to you, but the term DIT is a misnomer when dealing with RED. A TRUE DIT works on set and actually paints the digital picture with other HD and digital cameras, that don't shoot RAW. The fact that RED shoots RAW makes the RED tech job more a hybrid of DIT and data monkey. By virtue of REDs system, a DIT is not needed on RED Shoots. Sure you need to know the menu, and how to troubleshoot, and how to read exposure meters, but it is a far cry from what TRUE DITs do. Red/Data tech is a better description....

yes i know... however the 600 doesnt...

there is no "data monkey" position in the union.

DIT is the closest

 

[Von Thomas]

Wow. Well what should I call myself? This past weekend I teched a three camera job, now I specialize on the RED camera, and I not only managed all the data and backed it up, I supervised the exposure settings for every take, made sure a color card was inserted in key shots for color reference in post, oversaw playback, and made sure the infomation was ok before moving on.

With the RED there are more things to consider, it is a different way of capture, to think of it in terms of a film or video camera, is to undermine your project. Now there are data loaders, but to understand the ways of RED, you have to take it up a notch, especially for camera dept not familiar with how RED works.

 

[hoylecd]

A clear distinction needs to be made.

A clear distinction needs to be made.

Wow. Well what should I call myself? This past weekend I teched a three camera job, now I specialize on the RED camera, and I not only managed all the data and backed it up, I supervised the exposure settings for every take, made sure a color card was inserted in key shots for color reference in post, oversaw playback, and made sure the infomation was ok before moving on.

With the RED there are more things to consider, it is a different way of capture, to think of it in terms of a film or video camera, is to undermine your project. Now there are data loaders, but to understand the ways of RED, you have to take it up a notch, especially for camera dept not familiar with how RED works.

I think RED Tech would better describe your position on these jobs. What you're doing is a cross between what a traditional DIT and Digital Loader does. I realize that smaller productions may not want to pay for a digital loader who's focused on data security and a smooth post process. But on larger productions, the need for a dedicated Digital Loader becomes essential. Merely dragging and dropping is one thing, but providing data integrity with RAIDs, LTO decks, creating dailies, rendering on set, and working intensively with post is a full time position, and is not what a DIT does. I believe true DIT's are probably unhappy with the fact that their position is being misrepresented by so many people. The same goes for Digital Loaders. This is a growing field, and one that is constantly evolving. And even though this is REDUSER.NET, lets not forget that there are plenty of other digital formats out there, with plenty more to come. So the need for a clear distinction between a DIT and Digital Loader is crucial as the transition from film to digital really starts to speed up. Should a Digital Loader have a working knowledge of the camera the production is using, absolutely. But this does not make them a DIT, just like being able to copy a hard drive doesn't make you a Digital Loader. We need to start thinking beyond RED, and look at these two positions on a larger scale.

 

[Nick Gardner]

yes i know... however the 600 doesnt...

there is no "data monkey" position in the union.

tru, but there is a fully functional loader position, which is exactly what a card/drive monkey does. There is already a neat little room on the camera truck where you can put the loader, loaders understand the chain of custody and responsability of thier position, AND they know how to fill out everyones time cards. And again, they can cover the 2nd when he's 10-1, and are a functional part of the camera dept.

I see the Dit going away and getting back to loaders. DIT was really a transitory position to hold film DPs hands when shooting HD.

Nick

 

[Mike Prevette]

Gotta say I totally agree with Nick. Now that more cameras are shooting "raw" we are goig to return to the already well ironed out hierarchy.

_mike

tru, but there is a fully functional loader position, which is exactly what a card/drive monkey does. There is already a neat little room on the camera truck where you can put the loader, loaders understand the chain of custody and responsability of thier position, AND they know how to fill out everyones time cards. And again, they can cover the 2nd when he's 10-1, and are a functional part of the camera dept.

I see the Dit going away and getting back to loaders. DIT was really a transitory position to hold film DPs hands when shooting HD.

Nick

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

tru, but there is a fully functional loader position, which is exactly what a card/drive monkey does. There is already a neat little room on the camera truck where you can put the loader, loaders understand the chain of custody and responsability of thier position, AND they know how to fill out everyones time cards. And again, they can cover the 2nd when he's 10-1, and are a functional part of the camera dept.

I see the Dit going away and getting back to loaders. DIT was really a transitory position to hold film DPs hands when shooting HD.

Nick

true.. however.. if im getting paid loader rates.. i will NOT touch the camera, settings or consult on exposure..

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

the more post possibilities come the more an onset guy is needed/wished by directors and DOP´s (my experience)

-databackup
-Footage checking (focus, exposure etc.)
-dailies
-onset editing operator---test if the scene works or not with the director for example
-onset grading
-3rd AC
- playback operators
-onset syncing
- connection between Posthouse,VFX, Editor and Set (cam and sound department)

with red rocket and other nice tools it will be much more comfortable for directors and Dops.
i see the classical videooperator fading away.

doing all this i saw sets with more than one "DIT/Datawrangler"
i even saw DIT/Wrangler Assistants

and a DIT earns twice as much as a Clapper Loader here

 

[Nick Gardner]

true.. however.. if im getting paid loader rates.. i will NOT touch the camera, settings or consult on exposure..

I'm sure the Operator, the DP and the 1st will be thrilled by that ;-)

Seriously, why would you consult on exposure ? totally the DPs gig. Telling the DP how to expose a shot is a great way to piss him/her off. And really, there is no reason for a dit dam monkey whatever you want to call him to touch the camera, there are 3 fully qualified people doing that already - Op, 1st AC, 2nd AC. And by the way, loaders help out with whatever they can.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

last fall for example

1st unit 2 cams, 2nd unit one cam.

crew:
1st unit

1xdop
2xoperator
2x1st ac
2x2nd ac
1xprotocoll guy
1xDIT
1xvideooperator

2nd unit
1xoperator
1x1st ac
1x2nd ac
1xprotocoll guy
1xDIT
1xvideooperator

and one fat Bus. headquarter of the DIT/wranglers equipped with 2 macpro`s, several mb pros and all the things you need.
Everybody called the Bus "the Lab"

 

[hoylecd]

Digital Loader pay rate.

Digital Loader pay rate.

true.. however.. if im getting paid loader rates.. i will NOT touch the camera, settings or consult on exposure..

This is an interesting point. Not to knock on traditional film loaders, they are highly trained and have a large responsibility on any film production. But a Digital Loader has much more to keep track of and works with many more departments than a traditional Film Loader. As a Digital Loader, you are in constant communication with the Post House / Editor to make sure the workflow is consistent. You are reviewing footage for for quality control, rendering dailies, possibly syncing sound, all while making sure every piece of media is safe and secure. A film lab would never call a Film Loader on how to develop 35mm, but a Digital Loader could easily get a call from the post house or editor needing advice on how to best handle the media (this has happened to me personally). Again, I'm not trying to belittle the Film Loader, this is an essential and respected position. But I believe a Digital Loader should have a higher pay rate because the nature of the job requires more from the individual. And while I'm sure there are many producers who cringe at that thought, lets not forget the money that's being saved by not having to buy film, develop, and scan digitally. That adds up to a lot even on smaller shoots, and I think easily makes up for paying a Digital Loader what they deserve. I'm glad to see these topics being discussed, as I believe the position of Digital Loader is going to become much more prevalent over the next couple years, and these issues need to be figured out.