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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

White Shark cull, Western Australia: Someone make a film about this please

Speaking of un-Australian, Robert did you happen to catch Tony Abbot in the news today claiming the ABC is unpatriotic and anti-australian basically because it covers stories he doesn't like? Citing the Snowden leaks and Indonesian wire-tapping which he thought shouldn't of been covered because Snowden was a traitor and the wire-tapping caused us to lose face with Indonesia. What Leader of a country with "free press" gets himself out there saying the way x covers the news is "unpatriotic?'' Basically accusing the one and only non-commercial channel for news we have, and really our only real news network, of subversion against the state for covering the news.

This on the back of the almost unbelievably bold decision to withhold information from the media, and thus the public, on boat arrivals. They literally won an election on the promise of stopping the boats after intense, flamboyant, and daily criticism of arrivals under Labor. Then once in power they insulated themselves from receiving the same kind of criticism by ordering a freeze out, demanding all information be withheld on grounds of national security. Its an unrelated note, but still kind of related. There is extreme arrogance bordering on fascist behaviour to the way the Libs are running the country now they have all the power. They are getting involved in things politicians just shouldn't be messing with.

Collin Barnet is just another perfect example. On The Project last night they quoted current public opinion polls showed 80% of Australians are against the cull. Its actually not that far off rioting in the street level incensed over here for a lot of people, and he views the opposition to this policy as an opportunity to prove what a big man he is by holding firm. He's basically at war with the public at this point, and thriving on it.

Personally I'm finding it a bit alarming the distain for the public being shown currently across the board by our leaders. It just doesn't seem like we live in the same country anymore. I for one have never experienced this level of ultra conservatism before. And it really, really makes me uncomfortable.
 
Marc Thorpe said:
RE: Natural Shark Deterrents

Could it have been this? I remember seeing reports on this a while back, 1981, but then seemed to go quiet: http://www.nytimes.com/1981/01/20/science/natural-shark-repellent-is-alluring-to-scientists.html

Cheers,
Marc
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It was something more like this

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20040731&slug=sharks31

But 2004 might be going back too far also, same principle though. Maybe just a later, more advanced brew to the one above. I'd say was in the news in the last 18 months.
 
Trevor Emmerson said:
Speaking of un-Australian, Robert did you happen to catch Tony Abbot in the news today claiming the ABC is unpatriotic and anti-australian basically because it covers stories he doesn't like? Citing the Snowden leaks and Indonesian wire-tapping which he thought shouldn't of been covered because Snowden was a traitor and the wire-tapping caused us to lose face with Indonesia. What Leader of a country with "free press" gets himself out there saying the way x covers the news is "unpatriotic?'' Basically accusing the one and only non-commercial channel for news we have, and really our only real news network, of subversion against the state for covering the news.

This on the back of the almost unbelievably bold decision to withhold information from the media, and thus the public, on boat arrivals. They literally won an election on the promise of stopping the boats after intense, flamboyant, and daily criticism of arrivals under Labor. Then once in power they insulated themselves from receiving the same kind of criticism by ordering a freeze out, demanding all information be withheld on grounds of national security. Its an unrelated note, but still kind of related. There is extreme arrogance bordering on fascist behaviour to the way the Libs are running the country now they have all the power. They are getting involved in things politicians just shouldn't be messing with.

Collin Barnet is just another perfect example. On The Project last night they quoted current public opinion polls showed 80% of Australians are against the cull. Its actually not that far off rioting in the street level incensed over here for a lot of people, and he views the opposition to this policy as an opportunity to prove what a big man he is by holding firm. He's basically at war with the public at this point, and thriving on it.

Personally I'm finding it a bit alarming the distain for the public being shown currently across the board by our leaders. It just doesn't seem like we live in the same country anymore. I for one have never experienced this level of ultra conservatism before. And it really, really makes me uncomfortable.
Click to expand...

It is actually very classically Australian. In the old days people generally would hardly blink an eye at a shark cull, but celebrate it instead and politicians could prove how tough they were. If you had a reasonable argument you could probably swing people in general. The politicians are just still living in the same era and trying to 'tough it' out. What is un Australian to the extreme, is the attitude and conduct of the progressive increase in conservation protest demanding actions, which are more of a growing thing in the last six decades rather than classically Australian. I'm not saying I agree with either way, but it is now becoming a psychotic threat (like the link Robert was talking about and hysteria). I'd rather reasonableness.

As for the unpatriotic (US talk, we classically think in more terms of fairness, unless a individual is a extremist etc). Who is a traitor, those that spy and betray the trusts of Australian innocents or those that report these blatant crimes. Face it, every intrusion on an Australians phone or computer happening in Australia is a illegal crime carried out on Australian soil and jurisdiction, period, though an international crime. It also means that people should not circumnavigate the need for legal due process by obtaining the information from a foreign source, which was illegally obtained on Australian soil, that would make them a collaborator/coconspirator in the crime. The problem now, is that they have allowed the cat out of the bag by allowing computer companies to track and collect private information on Everybody, and to produce top mainstream software and operating systems that are so buggy that they are commonly hackable. Now not only can citizens of every country be accurately tracked and listened to and read and watched by a foreign power, it has opened up the possibility of any foreign power to do this to our citizens, and for criminals to do it. So no piece of government or commercial business, negotiation, development work or secret work can be done that can't be somewhat tracked. So while you collect minor information on most people, you make it impossible for your businesses and financial trade sector to function properly and securely, as they rely on secrecy to get ahead of foreign competition or each other and to do business. Without business confidence to develop and grow new business, or too carry it out, as every competitor and potential competitor, can see live what you are up to and turn up on the doorstep of all your deals that you have invested time in setting up and undercut you to the bone, making it not worth anybody carrying out business in the first place. You land up stalling and shrinking competition and the commercial sector, and the economy, down towards depression levels. A good reason for lots of privacy laws and enforcements.

On tracking people. I deal with developing leading edge technology concepts, and have come up with a string of out there ideas over the years that others rediscover. I figured out that you could tell a lot about peoples posture, position of limbs and movements just from tracking the movement of the phone they carry, now a reality. How you could compress a video stream down to next to nothing in a way red ray could only dream of (actually that one is not completely out there given research in the late 80's, but far ahead) and at a fraction of the horse power for the same compression factor (conventional hacking filming from your phone will lead to your data running out too quickly, the phone getting hot when it should be cooler doing nothing, and your battery running down significantly quicker, I know, has happened to me sometimes) . For forensic investigation of sound recordings, to get the shape of the room the recording was done in, and objects/people and materials in the room (very very very limited in a conventional cell connection, but basically what was in the Batman movie years latter but not with that detail), now becoming a research reality out there. I wanted to make eye tracking software using the phone's front camera, to control old non touch phones, they now do this to track what you are looking at on your phone as you read or surf the web. There are other abilities in your phone too. The problem is there are maybe millions of people and children trying to hack into computer connections that could get hack software to do this.

I deleted a game Angry .. off my phone today, because it was using suspiciously large amounts of storage space more and more (4 times what I would have expected) and yesterday it was revealed the agency has been using it and some other apps to collect information. I'm not too worried about them, I'm not a threat so they are not after me, and they are not a threat to me so much, and I mostly play on another device, it is just I carry it around, a little too little privacy. ;)

So we need a rethink.
 
Trevor.

We probably need to take care not to become too political on this forum lest one or another of us becomes excommunicated, excoriated, expurgated or whatever other ex-it process might exist.

The ABC ( Australia's taxpayer-funded national broadcaster ) came under attack during the Howard era, so it comes as no surprise to see a reprise performance. We saw the "shoot to kill bill" become law in spite of doubts as to its constitutionality.

We had a previous State Premier declare this state "ungovernable" during the Nookambar Convoy turmoil, so we may yet see Premier Barnett construct a novel way to use the Criminal Code to deal with the beach protests.
　

The Federal offence of sedition was also reinstated during the Howard years. 　

There is a renewed attack under way on organised labour which in itself might be a good thing if limited only to weeding out criminal infiltration. I doubt it will stop there though.
　

There was bold political criticism directed at the other limb of our Westminster "separation of powers" system, the High Court. Such was almost unheard of and in itself may be an attack on our constitution.

There is the current court of disputed returns ( High Court ) over what some interpret as an attempt to procure the last senate poll in W.A's senate electorate. If the decision is that we go back to the polls, the conservatives will likely do badly.

The High Court judge or judges who sit on it might come under new threat and will need to watch their expenses and comcar use very diligently. The Howard administration was tainted with the attempt to bring undone, a sitting High Court Judge.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/03/19/1016519809191.html.

My concern is that P.M. Abbott might be a servant of the U.S., much like P.M. Menzies was the servant of the U.K., over the nuclear tests which irradiated parts of our north-west and central desert. 　

I fear we are being manipulated into a fight with Indonesia, a new proxy war for China/Russian Federation -v- The U.S./U.K./E.U. to test military materiel out whilst the body count is for ourselves and the Indos to own and for both countries to be placed under an usurious yoke of lend-lease style war debt to their respective sponsors.
　

The secretiveness is not going away any time soon. If a fascist-style governance begins to emerge, one of the first indicators may be another attempt to construct a reputational demise of a High Court judge or high profile social-activist legal practitioner the likes of Julian Burnside or our own current state governor Malcolm McCusker.
　

This is all straying away very far from the controversy of a shark cull.
 
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Agreed, back to the sharks. Unfortunately it is very much a political issue but any attempt to unravel motivations and such beyond simple ignorance is going to take us further down a road not really appropriate to this forum. Not my intention starting out, just kind of drifted that way.

I'd actually prefer to hear from some of the underwater guys what their experiences diving with GWS have been like.

When on assignment how are you guys finding sharks? Attracting them into filming range? How many days go by when nothing shows up? What sort of safety precautions do you take?
 
I feel your pain Trevor!
I'm so surprise such a decision have been taken in a country like Australia.
For me before this sad GWS story Australia was the most pro active continent in term of preserving its biodiversity.
Actually the first and only time I went to Australia, I just realise how ridiculous was our biosysteme in Europe.
Nature is so strong and sometimes even deadly out there, I felt really humble in front of that.
And you know what, I enjoyed that feeling a lot.
I can't wait to come back.
But back to the GWS,
I think it is time to explain to people, how all of us (humans, mamal, fishes, insectes, plants) are all depending to the others.
When a leaving creature is in danger, probably others will suffer, and at the end of the chain, even if it doesn't seems obvious at the start, human will get a slap back in the face
As an example, the GWS like eating grouper, I read a studies about an increase of groupers due to a decrease of GWS in their environement.
The consequences are sort of crazy; so an increase of groupers lead to a decrease of little fishes, you know the ones who clean the coral, wich lead to a coral who can't grow properly because of a lack of fich cleaner.
So indirectly hunting the GWS can also fuck the coral, and at the end of the chain damage tourism and Australian economy.
The problem we are facing today IMO, is the short term vision we are having on everything.
I wish I could help, I hope to be back to Sydney by september, I keep my finger cross.
Anyway keep the fight, and glad to see civilian disobedience isn't just for French people. ;-)
 
Trevor, here in the Americas, White Sharks can be found very reliably in certain seasons and specific locations, over on the Bubble Blowers thread there is a general agreement not to reveal any of that information, in the interests of thwarting the Taiwanese/Chinese/Indonesian/Costa Rican interests who profit handsomely therefrom. We know they troll the internet for new leads constantly, mum's the word not only for the magnificent White Sharks, but the Hammerheads, Tigers, and Bulls as well.

12211892563_4ac7ab66dd.jpg
[/URL] A009_C032_0219N4 by Red Sea Pictures, on Flickr[/IMG]

It was always my thought, if anyone wants the fins, go ahead, but the rule is, you have to jump in the water with the sharks, armed with nothing more than a Speedo, a spoon, and a pair of wooden chopsticks, sharpened as you please.
 
@Brice. That is what I mean, reasons not to cull to put in a documentary, that research would apply well in tropical regions. Such as Queensland where there has been coral growth issues, but why? It does not matter even if they are entrenched against it, the documentary is for the public to learn, and people from regions dependent on coral tourism or fisheries would take notice leading to advocacy from local members.

@Robert. Agreed, a nice temporary sideline, stating realities related to current discussion. Unfortunately realities instead of conjecture can seem be more a threat on the net. It would be great to run a reasonable rationalist (with some exploratory conjecture) forum, but other important things take up time (at least making a living).
 
Wayne. QUOTE: "but other important things take up time (at least making a living). " - a very muchly valid imperative - You might like this one. - An old traditional guy up north many years ago had no literacy, very basic English-language skills but as a homespun philosopher was a gem to listen to when it came to the human condition. Many of his little sayings were prefaced with "Man gotta eat." - QUOTE: "Man gotta eat. Can't live on love alone - little enough he's getting of it these days endit." ( "endit" - combinent functional contraction of "isn't it" and "anyway" ). One of my abiding regrets is that I did not take the time to write them down but I was a young idiot at the time. - Back on the sharks. There is apparently a protest gathering happening at Warnbro this weekend but I have not been able to find any detail of it - probably the beginnings of media self-censorship. - Anybody know anything?
 
Slightly off topic but of great relevance to redusers who work with the ABC and SBS. Following Tony Abbots outrageous attack yesterday on the lack of patriotism shown the way the ABC's chooses to report is news, it emerges they will indeed be subject to intense funding review. This is disastrous news for the industry really, going to cost jobs for sure.

http://images.theage.com.au/file/2014/01/30/5118332/Efficiency_study_TOR.pdf
 
Sadly the first 'victim' of the cull was a debatable 3m Female Tiger Shark. Tiger Sharks are one of the most enigmatic of species. I was fortunate enough to spend six months diving them in south Africa in the Aliwal Shoal region for an extended Nat Geo embed project. There were a couple of close calls due to me for the most part being in the water with around 30 Blacktip Sharks, Oceanic not the reef blacktip, and at the most, at one time, in one place 14 Tiger Sharks. I was hanging out at 5m in a baited scenario with a fearless snorkeler as my safety 'diver'. I was at ease, the sharks at times were 'curious' and we all lived to tell the tale.



Trevor, I use a third party image host, photobucket.com I load images there and copy and paste the IMG Code here. Lightens the load on the REDUser server too...

Cheers,
Mark.
 
Joe D'Arcy said:
This is a great suggestion Brian. Do you have any further info on this?
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I believe I saw this on shark week in the last year or 2... hopefully it could be engineered in a way that both sharks and humans can enjoy the water together without impacting one another at all

ps Ocean Ramsey is amazing, I can't even friend her on FB she is so popular she maxed out the requests!
 
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Trevor Emmerson said:
got a few croc stories myself. Terrifying beasts. Worse than sharks by a mile. And yet, protected and after 30 years on the comeback are in huge numbers. No-one's calling for a cull on them [well, actually yes of course there are some idiots] because no-one has any doubt that you need to respect the fact that they are king of their domain.
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I stand corrected. When you are on a roll you are on a roll. Collin Barnett quoted today on croc's:

"The Premier also flagged taking tougher action to deal with crocodiles, saying the southward movement of the animals from the state's far north called for something to be done.

"I think that will be probably less contentious, but I can see that there's going to have to be measures taken around Broome in controlling the southward drift of crocodile populations," Mr Barnett said."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-...-catch-and-kill-will-last-two-summers/5225190

Also, much as I love the sharks $610 000 for 4 months work killing them for that 1 bloke does sound like a pretty good deal. Set for life off the back of that almost. He might not know the difference between a Tiger and a Bull shark but have to give him credit for knowing what an opportunity of a lifetime looks like.
 
Thanks for the copy of the poster. I am making my mind up whether to drag a camera down to Cott or Warnbro to at least make an enduring record of whatever happens down there. It would be best if some RED guys pick up that particular baton. The SI2K with an old tube Betacam ENG lens does not quite cut it as crisply as a RED with something like a Cabrio on it.

As for the fisho, by the time he pays for his pot licences, fuel, maintenance, moorings, shed/depot and other overheads, that money, whilst a good wicket might not go as far as one might think.

As for the crocs, when I was up in PHE years ago, there was a small one spotted in the Murrabigoorinya creek branch which weaves back out towards the Wedgefield LIA. The story was that somebody on a southbound prawn boat thought it was a cute idea to drop one off there on the way through.

There apparently a few there now but it may still be the realm of the Tasmanian Tiger as to whether they are real or not. I guess that one day, when some of the yard dogs begin to disappear, the truth will come out if there is truth to come out.

There is a very long piece of desert coastline between Broome and De Grey River which is fairly improvident for crocs to be able to make that jump from Roebuck Bay to the De Grey and on to Port Hedland.
 
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I was going to drive up on Sunday to attend and capture some footage in case I end up wanting it, 14 hour return drive for me. But I've got friends coming down to visit who were going to arrive Sunday night now getting here tomorrow so that pretty much counts me out.
 
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