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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

White Balance

Alexander Nikishin said:
You'd shoot RAW with a grey card prior to every change in lighting conditions.

Then set your color temp. in Redcine.
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Hi, Alexander. By dialed in, I meant the preview (Dual HD/SDI) either to the LCD or monitor, not the RAW footage. That way you could ensure that your producers don't freak out (when they see the preview) and you have the metadata for later RAW processing in REDcine (or a general idea of where you want to be).

I'd do a few weeks worth of prep (experimenting with LUT's) with some key crew for a feature, and then apply them to a 1080p preview on set.

Good to know about what people plan to do, though.
I suppose color temp is as important as film as with digital cinema.

:beer:
 
Hi

It has been hinted at (and therefore understood by some/many?) that you/we would be advised to optically filter red to get it in the 'ball park' with regard to colour temperature...

I would like to reiterate this as it is the only way you can retain predictable and wide 'latitude with any imager (film or electronic)... Overloading a colour channel (even if its yet to be created ;-)) can be a real problem..

regards

Michael Lindsay
 
Michael Lindsay said:
Hi

It has been hinted at (and therefore understood by some/many?) that you/we would be advised to optically filter red to get it in the 'ball park' with regard to colour temperature...

I would like to reiterate this as it is the only way you can retain predictable and wide 'latitude with any imager (film or electronic)... Overloading a colour channel (even if its yet to be created ;-)) can be a real problem..

regards

Michael Lindsay
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've always wondered about that. Several recent-model video cameras have done away with manual color-correcting internal filter wheels. My Sony DSR450 is one of those, with its all-electronic white balance system, and ND-only filter wheel. A couple times, I've gotten some odd daylight white balances with this camera, balances that I found difficult to correct in post. I've never seen similar white balance problems when using cameras with conventional filter wheels (Sony 400/600/700s, F900s, etc.). Ever since then, I've only shot using the preset white balances with my DSR450.
 
I suspect that with these wider-latitude digital cameras, the noise issues from rating it at 5500K versus 3200K are not significant enough to warrant color-correction filters. And the trouble is that while it would be easy to use something like an 85 filter outdoors if it would help noise problems, I think the "native" balance of these sensors (where they are happiest) is closer to daylight than tungsten, and it's really not practical to use blue filters indoors when shooting in tungsten balance due to the high filter factor of blue and the low light levels employed by tungsten.

People forget just how far in the red spectrum tungsten lamps are -- even tungsten-balance color negative has to design a fast and therefore grainy blue layer just to compensate.
 
Bachman said:
Havent you guys got work to do???
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Yup, and we'll get to that...but right now we're sharpening our knowledge base to help us generate and perform future work...
 
Michael Lindsay said:
Hi

It has been hinted at (and therefore understood by some/many?) that you/we would be advised to optically filter red to get it in the 'ball park' with regard to colour temperature...

I would like to reiterate this as it is the only way you can retain predictable and wide 'latitude with any imager (film or electronic)... Overloading a colour channel (even if its yet to be created ;-)) can be a real problem..

regards

Michael Lindsay
Click to expand...

Hi everyone,

Forgive me if I seem like an idiot, but does this mean that I would need a mattebox in order to use the camera? I was planning on a standard HD 2/3" lens, and hope to keep things similar to what I have been using with the DXC-637 BetaSP camera I currently use. I need to run and gun and want to keep it simple.

Thanks,

Tim
 
Bachman said:
LOL..thats what I keep telling my wife
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Mine too...but fortunately she's a professional production coordinator who works with me, so she knows the value of me staying current with technology...

She's stoked to see me on tech forums because she knows I'm strengthening our future in the process...
 
Gibby said:
Mine too...but fortunately she's a professional production coordinator who works with me, so she knows the value of me staying current with technology...

She's stoked to see me on tech forums because she knows I'm strengthening our future in the process...
Click to expand...

I wish I could say that... My wife is a Sociologist, and will be working with me on documentaries, but she has little patience for my love affair with Red, since at this point, my research is all to do with my day job. We will definitely be buying one in a year or two though, but our first few docs will be shot with XL1's:sick:
 
Bachman said:
My wife and 3 kids think I need help
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They are probably right, about all of us:)

I look at this research as an investment in my future though for sure, so it is only somewhat crazy. But I don't know how much more information my brain can juggle without giving up...

TGIF... I have a 12 pack of Sierra Nevada in my not too distant future...

Peace,

Tim
 
TimothyD said:
Hi everyone,

Forgive me if I seem like an idiot, but does this mean that I would need a mattebox in order to use the camera? I was planning on a standard HD 2/3" lens, and hope to keep things similar to what I have been using with the DXC-637 BetaSP camera I currently use. I need to run and gun and want to keep it simple.

Thanks,

Tim
Click to expand...

In two words TimothyD - absolutely not. If you want to shoot cine style, yes a matte box and follow focus would normally be used. If you're shooting EFP style, with your HD 2/3" lens, a matte box isn't necessary. That's not to say that you couldn't use a lightweight clip-on matte box if you chose to. If you need filters with your HD 2/3" lens during EFP style shooting, you can easily screw them onto your HD 2/3" lens barrel. Remember - RED One has no internal ND filters like the DXC 637. Filters need to be added externally to RED One if used.

Whether you're shooting RGB or RAW with RED One you have many white balance options. Re-read my post #32 of this thread, which contains recent info from RED Team on white balancing.
 
Hi Gibby,

I did read that before posting, and risking sounding like an idiot, I still am a little unclear about this.

So will I need to use a filter? If so, is that just a filter that screws on the front of the lens? Or does it go between the barrel and the camera body, or in this case, the B4 adapter? I'm guessing since you said barrel that it goes in between? If so, that sounds like a pain when running and gunning.

I need to be able to follow action from indoors to outdoors, and vice versa. Is this going to be a problem for me?

Thanks again for the advice, you rock...

Tim
 
Bachman said:
Maybe we could ask Jim to setup a Redaholics group
Click to expand...

LOL...

Yeah, that I am...

Everyone I talk to about it either gets a glossed over look in their eyes, or they tell me I'm crazy to buy this camera...

Tim
 
There is no filter wheel on the RedOne so you might find a lightweight matte box useful, not so much for colour correction filters, but for ND filters. In theory you could use screw on filters, but I think a matte box would be a better bet in a fast moving environment.

M
 
David Mullen ASC said:
On what planet? Auto white balance isn't used that often on professional video productions except in emergencies, but white balance is a common tool of video production.

In film, when you shoot under greenish fluorescents and shoot a grey scale under them and ask the dailies colorist to correct-out the green, essentially you are doing a form of white balancing, just not in-camera. It's just that white balance is a form of video production, whereas the RED camera is designed to act more like a film camera. But it's not a question of amateur vs. professional.
Click to expand...

im talking about auto = amature:)
 
TimothyD said:
So will I need to use a filter? If so, is that just a filter that screws on the front of the lens? Or does it go between the barrel and the camera body, or in this case, the B4 adapter? I'm guessing since you said barrel that it goes in between? If so, that sounds like a pain when running and gunning.

I need to be able to follow action from indoors to outdoors, and vice versa. Is this going to be a problem for me?

Thanks again for the advice, you rock...

Tim
Click to expand...

In order to use your B4 2/3" HD lens on RED One, you'll have to use a RED or Abakas adapter. Those adapters will allow you to shoot 2k REDCODE RAW if you choose, or you can shoot 1080p RGB or 720p RGB. Keeping this in mind, and then reviewing my post #32, if you're shooting RC RAW, then you have lots of adjustment options for color in REDCINE, thus precise filtering at the acquisition stage, like you would in traditional film workflows, is unnecessary. If you're shooting 1080p RGB or 720p RGB, then yes, the color values will be baked into the data, thus you need to be pretty accurate on your white balance and filtering at the acquisition stage. As Stuart mentioned, RED One will have a Auto White Balance function. Since you're not highly experienced with filters, it would probably be wise to use the Auto White Balance function when shooting with RED One until you can learn more about filters.

Yes, filters for EFP lenses screw right onto the front end of the lens. Based on what the RED Team said on white balance, going from outside to inside in a rapidly changing environment, tapping the Auto White Balance button should satisfy you're needs when shooting in an EFP, run n' gun style.
 
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