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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Which still lens mount options?

Dominic Jones

Dominic Jones

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Any thoughts on which still lens mounts will be offered as optional replacements?

I'm assuming Nikon F will be supported, as will a Canon mount (FD?), but how about a Contax/Yashica bayonet mount - theres a lot of very reasonable Zeiss glass about for the C/Y mount at very good prices, and they do wider than either Nikkor or Canon glass at reasonable speeds (say f2.8 or faster) - very important on an S35-sized sensor.

Just a thought...
 
About Canon EOS mount benefits

About Canon EOS mount benefits

For my point of view PL mount ( The PL stands for "positive lock") should be built in as a standard on the RED ONE camera and other mounts like additional options to order. About DSLR mounts I would like to suggest that the first option should be CANON EOS mount.

WHY?

Jim Jannard mentioned once on DVXUser-RED forum: 'The
EOS lenses are fine optically, but there is no manual
aperture control.'

That's the truth, but to have EOS mount doesn't mean
to attach EOS lenses to shoot with RED ONE. It means
that the CANON EOS mount has a great benefit option to
attach wide range of other 35mm photo lenses like
Hasselblad Lens to Canon EOS mount,
adapter Leica R lens Canon EOS,
adapter Contax/Yashica CO/Y lens Canon EOS Mount,
Olympus OM Lens to Canon EOS mount
and finally adapter for
Nikon F mount lenses on EOS cameras and then you can use
additional adapters for
M42 for the Nikon F Bayonet and
Nikon to Four Thirds (4/3).

A lot of options just with one BASE 35mm SLR-DSLR
mount. All that with a little help from third
party(ies) and you could have many 35mm SLR-DSLR
lenses on the RED ONE camera. Hope this make sense or
I am wrong?

Find, have a look, purchase and try out all these adapters like
Zörk Mount Adapters
http://www.zoerk.com/pages/p_mounta.htm
http://www.zoerk.com/Zoerk info/product_guide_current.pdf

or some cheaper adapter mount options at
http://www.enjoyyourcamera.com/index.php?cat=c39_Canon-Adapter.html

Also must have a look at this Canon EOS lens gear at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fodder/sets/72157594320195534/
 
Zeiss do a 16mm f2.8 for the C/Y mount - the Nikkors at this length start getting very slow (I've used Nikon gear for over a decade, so don't worry, I'm not knocking them!) - I think the closest Nikkor is the 15mm f3.5 (they do a 16mm f2.8 but it's not rectilinear).

It's also more a question of lens choice - I like Zeiss glass a lot, and the C/Y mount gives the option of buying some (relatively) cheap glass for day to day use on the Red One, useful especially considering that my company is based a ways away from any rental houses, but I imagine quite a few shooters will want a low cost alternative to hiring PL mount optics...

The Canon EOS idea has it's merits, but in reality for professionals changing lens adapter mounts all the time is a pain in the you-know-where - trust me, I've done it, and gave up on it very quickly.

BTW, I'm not suggesting DSLR mounts I'm talking about SLR mounts...
 
Even better option is to have more separate SLR and Cinema lens mounts like Red Rock Micro M2 Lens adapter has, Nikon Lens Mount, Canon FD Lens Mount, Canon EOS Lens Mount, Minolta Lens Mount, Olympus Lens Mount, Pentax K Lens Mount, Pentax S Lens Mount and finally Arriflex PL Mount. Could be possible to achieve cheap price options like RR prices between $90 (Nikon Lens Mount) to $ 450 (PL mount). I have RR Nikon Lens Mount and Canon EOS Lens Mount for my RR M2 adapter. It works.
 
Martin said:
Nikon 14mm f/2.8

http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=5&productNr=1925

Martin
Click to expand...
Ah, thanks Martin - I'd never discovered that, I thought I knew every Nikkor lens on the market, but I guess I'm out of date!... Do you happen to know if there's an MF version available?

In either case, which length lenses are/are not available for a given system is really not the issue, it's choice of glass - I'd certainly like to have the option of Zeiss SLR glass on the table...

Yes, it would be great to have a huge choice of SLR mounts, but if that's not possible/practical (there may, after all, not be that great a demand for them with an essentially "high-end" camera) then I'm simply saying I'd like to see the C/Y bayonet supported.

FWIW, the C/Y mount is *not* supported by Redrock (I've got one of the very fist M2's, as it happens), SGPro or any other 35mm adapter that I know of, except through conversion rings, which is a shame - it's a great system.
 
Dominic. No purely manual version of the 14mm, though you can of course switch it to manual mode. There is a little mini-review from Ken Rockwell here http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/1428.htm.

Jim has talked about other still mounts before over at dvxuser here: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?p=637691&highlight=mount#post637691 he said:

Over time we expect to offer many lens mounts. But in the beginning, expect PL, Nikon and Canon manual. We are fully supportive of 3rd parties beating us to the punch in offering other mounts. By the fall of 2007, our hope is that there will be a mount for almost any lens that makes sense.
 
But the Peleng 3.5/8 mm is a circular fisheye lens and Voigtländer Ultra Wide Heliar 12 mm f5.6 is Aspherical Lens. That's the difference!!!
 
The Third Man said:
But the Peleng 3.5/8 mm is a circular fisheye lens and Voigtländer Ultra Wide Heliar 12 mm f5.6 is Aspherical Lens. That's the difference!!!
Click to expand...

Yup. I know it is not rectilinear (though of course you could derive a rectilinear distortion through After Effects). I just thought it was worth mentioning in the context of wide cheap lenses.

The Voigtländer Ultra Wide Heliar 12 mm f5.6 has been discussed before. Evin thought it may not fit because it protrudes into the body too far. I don't know if this would be the case and the only way of knowing for sure will be once the camera is released and someone tries it.

There are wider options than the Voigtländer but they don't come cheap. The Russian made JSC Optica-Elite 9.6mm T2.1 http://slowmotioninc.com/sales/s35/9_6mm.htm which is about 8000 USD or the Arri 8mm ultra prime: http://www.arri.com/prod/cam/ultra_prime_r8/ultra_prime_r8.htm Not sure of the price of that but rest assured it is a lot more expensive.

Martin
 
Martin, thanks for the info and in general about lenses everything should be tested before any purchase decision.
 
Perhaps a better lens mount plan would be to do something like what Aaton did. That is insted of each adapter fitting into one permanet mount, (be it PL or whatever) have each mount be attachable to the camera body by a nice large stainless steel ring. This would ensure repetability as each mount would be self contained and not be a seperate piece between the lens and some other mount. I'd rather pay six to eight hundred dollars for a nice brass and steel mount which I knew would repeat an accurate flange focal depth then to have a go between unit.
Mayby thats what that round tube looking piece behind the PL mount in the photo is!

Chuck
 
I'm not sure if that is entirely a good idea on a 35mm size sensor array. Sensors just don't have the room for error film does. Especially 16mm film with it's mostly short focal length/large depth of field lenses. I'd like to see real thick numerous bolts for whatever mounts Red decides. That way we can be sure there is no focus shift from edge to edge.
 
Hi Evin,

I didn't give a very good discription of the design for the mount I was thinking of. The clamping ring would be just to pull the mount flush to the camera body. The mount itself would be located by a shoulder that fits to a matching diameter bore on the face plate of the camera. Much like the outside diameter of PL mount lens fits to the inside diameter of the camera mount. And since the clamping ring makes contact continuously on the full diameter of the mount it would provide much more and evenly distributed clamping force. Also you would not need any tools to remove and replace it. Short focal length lenses do have more apperant depth of field but inversely they have very shallow depth of focus and require very precision collimation to the film plane be it celluloid or silicon.

Chuck
 
In theory you would have to adapt a 35mm SLR lens to a flange to film distance of 52mm for RED PL (APS-C is 51,98mm) and a mount diameter not exceeding 54mm.
Here is a link to a table of flange distances for various 35mm mounts:
http://www.mapug-astronomy.net/ragreiner/adapters.html
The average flange distance for 35mm SLR lenses reads around 45mm, so unless some RED mount allows to get rid of these extra 9mm or so, there would be no way to use any 35mm SLR lens on RED´s PL mount.
Leica M and Voigtlaender reads 27,8mm flange distance, hard to imagine that these could be used on RED.
I am pondering alternate (read cheap) solutions too, but I think I shall wait for REDs offerings of SLR hard mounts before I will have any lens dismantled and re-fitted for PL.
My guess for flange tolerance for S35 would be 0,02mm - meaning playing with lenses without a collimator is a definite no no.
peter
 
peter roehsler said:
In theory you would have to adapt a 35mm SLR lens to a flange to film distance of 52mm for RED PL (APS-C is 51,98mm) and a mount diameter not exceeding 54mm.
Here is a link to a table of flange distances for various 35mm mounts:
http://www.mapug-astronomy.net/ragreiner/adapters.html
The average flange distance for 35mm SLR lenses reads around 45mm, so unless some RED mount allows to get rid of these extra 9mm or so, there would be no way to use any 35mm SLR lens on RED´s PL mount.
Leica M and Voigtlaender reads 27,8mm flange distance, hard to imagine that these could be used on RED.
I am pondering alternate (read cheap) solutions too, but I think I shall wait for REDs offerings of SLR hard mounts before I will have any lens dismantled and re-fitted for PL.
My guess for flange tolerance for S35 would be 0,02mm - meaning playing with lenses without a collimator is a definite no no.
peter
Click to expand...

Exactly Peter !

It would be almost, if not, impossible to remount 35mm still camera lenses in PL mount. You would have to move or extend the apreture control ring forward or else it would end up behind the PL mount itself. And on many lenses the control ring would have to come so far forward that it would intefer with the focus ring. Plus the cost would be brutal. That's why I agree with you that each particular lens mount for the camera should be its own little hard front as it were. This is going to be an amazing camera and just be cause it is compact of size does not mean that it should have a shoddy lens mounting system. After all the lens mount is the door to the house as it were. And you don't want to give bad curb. Do you?

Chuck
 
Chuck,
I could not have said it better. I read your profile and I found that you are an expert on these things. We should not try to apply cheap shortcut solutions to a tool which will be surprisingly inexpensive when available, but rather try to meet the high technical standards set by the people behind RED.
peter
 
Jim has talked about other still mounts before over at dvxuser here: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?p=637691&highlight=mount#post637691 he said:

Over time we expect to offer many lens mounts. But in the beginning, expect PL, Nikon and Canon manual. We are fully supportive of 3rd parties beating us to the punch in offering other mounts. By the fall of 2007, our hope is that there will be a mount for almost any lens that makes sense.
Click to expand...

About other still mounts technology the RED TEAM will decide at the end of development process and the 3rd parties will professionally follow the way, do the precise measuring, manufacture and try to sell us other SLR mounts for the RED ONE. No any fear about that.
 
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