which scarlet to buy? my choice has changed

[REDneck]

I originally thought I would want to get the fixed lens scarlet because it's closer to my price range, but after a lot of thought I've come to think that the S35 is the way to go. Obviously I haven't seen footage from either camera, so I'm speculating, but it seems to me that a 35mm sized sensor for $7000 is the biggest leap in affordable digital cinema ever.

Even if the fixed lens model is great (I'm sure it will be) the Scarlet S35 is pretty much the last camera I would need for MANY years. Think about how long 35 mm film has been the accepted standard for high quality professional work -- 100 years? -- and it STILL IS. The S35 scarlet isn't another baby step towards that level of quality, like DV, HDV, HD, etc.... it more or less IS 35mm! Now to get that for $7000? You've basically bought your ticket to the big leagues in terms of image quality. Before someone else points it out -- all other factors come down to skill. But that's not the point. When $7000 gets you a 35mm equivalent, it just seems like a shame settling for the fixed lens model for only a few grand less.

Granted, you'll have to buy a lens and many more accessories for the S35 scarlet, but it won't hurt too much if you think about how many years of use you'll get out of it. The 2/3" chip scarlet will have its purposes -- high frame rates / small spaces -- but the S35 version is just too damn tempting.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

your probably looking close to the original cost of the red one body after you have bought all accessories. (not glass.. unless your doing still glass)

I would say 18-20 grand for a scarlet set up that is ready to go

I am more than double the cost of my red one body in terms of accessories

 

[Ryan Valle]

Each camera red is releasing is great in value and burns out all competition and each one is targeted to different users. I am still looking at the fixed lens scarlet since that seems to be more of what I need and fits my budget. From what it seems to me, its the only model that is built to work out of the box so for $3750, that's not a bad deal considering that decent prosumer HDV cameras are around that price range. I would love to get the S35 model, but with the different modules, memory/hard drives, batteries, viewfinders, and rails you would need to get, the price may easily jump from $7000 to $10k or even $15k.

However, the beauty of the Scarlet and Epic system is its ease of upgradability. If I do stick to getting the fixed lens version and make its money's worth, I can easily upgrade to the S35 or FF35 brain and still hold on to my accessories. Or if I decide I need interchangable lens, it seems like I can also add a lens mount (just an assumption based on the accessories I list).

 

[kevinfluet]

However, the beauty of the Scarlet and Epic system is its ease of upgradability. If I do stick to getting the fixed lens version and make its money's worth, I can easily upgrade to the S35 or FF35 brain and still hold on to my accessories. Or if I decide I need interchangable lens, it seems like I can also add a lens mount (just an assumption based on the accessories I list).

If you mean you think you can add a lens mount to the fixed lens version, I don't think that is going to work. The fixed lens is recessed and I get the impression the sensor is much further back in the body than in any of the other brains.

But, yes, the flexibility is amazing. It almost makes it hard to choose. And the options for starting with cheap (SLR) lenses and eBay accessories might make even the s35 an under-$10,000 camera if you really want to do that.

 

[Ryan Valle]

I was assuming you can unscrew the lens out and place the lens mount on it, but I guess its just a dream for now since not many details have been released.

 

[Jaime Vallés]

Nobody from RED has confirmed either way, but I'm pretty sure the fixed-lens Scarlet's lens won't be removable in any way (i.e. permanently attached to the brain.) However, all the other modules that come with the $3750 package (LCD, recording, battery) should work with any other brains as well.

Of course, this is all an assumption. We'll see what they say specs-wise this coming year.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

i bet slr lenses will increase in price as there will be a higher demand in 09-10

 

[REDneck]

your probably looking close to the original cost of the red one body after you have bought all accessories. (not glass.. unless your doing still glass)

I would say 18-20 grand for a scarlet set up that is ready to go

I am more than double the cost of my red one body in terms of accessories

Based on the price of the fixed lens 2/3" model compared to the brain-only 2/3" model, I think it will be much less than that to assemble a working package. The real decision will be how much to spend on glass

 

[Leaf Baimbridge]

If it's only $750 to get the fixed lens Scarlet fully operational then it would stand to reason that the price would be the same for the rest of the Scarlet line up (minus glass). A full on production package will of course run a much higher cost. It's entirely possible that the accessories coming out for the new DSMC's will be priced considerably lower than the accessories that first came out with the RED ONE. A lot of advancements have been made and seeing as this is slated for larger production runs it could translate into savings for the customers.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

Based on the price of the fixed lens 2/3" model compared to the brain-only 2/3" model, I think it will be much less than that to assemble a working package. The real decision will be how much to spend on glass

not just talking about red branded accessories...

MB
FF
FLUID HEAD
STICKS (standard/baby)
monitoring
so on...

 

[GPSchnyder]

I'd also take a s35 or even a ff35 if there wouldn't be that Idea in my twisted brain to shoot 3d. And therefore a little bit smaller size and not so much dof blur would be a good thing.

So, year. I would go your way too if I only wanted to shoot 2d ;-)

But now I get 2 Scarlet fixed for nearly only the price of your chosen brain. Plus the 3d-mount on thingy from the 3d render and two bomb-evfs (if there isn't a evf in the package) and I'm done. A Rig to mount this two is already laying around here, and a tripod is also available.

 

[wardovision]

i bet slr lenses will increase in price as there will be a higher demand in 09-10

why do you think that? If every single potential Scarlet/ Epic owner used nothing but SLR lenses it still wouldn't be a drop in the bucket compared to the numbers they are already producing

 

[chuck colburn]

why do you think that? If every single potential Scarlet/ Epic owner used nothing but SLR lenses it still wouldn't be a drop in the bucket compared to the numbers they are already producing

He mayby right. Look what happen with the Zeiss Contax lenses. They seem to be going for two to three times what they did before some bonehead mentioned them here on REDUSER. The little Angenieux 28-70mm f2.6 for 35mm still cameras was 4 or 5 hundred six months ago but now seems to be between 1 and 2k.

 

[Lee Saxon]

He mayby right. Look what happen with the Zeiss Contax lenses. They seem to be going for two to three times what they did before some bonehead mentioned them here on REDUSER. The little Angenieux 28-70mm f2.6 for 35mm still cameras was 4 or 5 hundred six months ago but now seems to be between 1 and 2k.

The ZEs and ZFs are a very niche product. Heavy, expensive, manual focus, no electronic communication and therefore no f-stop display on any SLR made in the last ~35 years (except a modified Nikon F4 or F5, but that's not the point). They aren't made or sold in very high numbers. I would be willing to bet that there are individual Nikon and Canon lenses (perhaps many) that sell more units per month than the entire ZE/ZF line does in a year.

 

[Lee Saxon]

seeing as this is slated for larger production runs it could translate into savings for the customers.

I'm sure economies of scale are exactly what Red is counting on with Scarlet.

For one thing someone buying a $2500 2/3" Scarlet likely lacks the budget for a $2950 EVF, but an ever bigger problem is that once you admit you can build a 3K 'brain' for $2500 it becomes difficult to convince the customer (especially since he might be cross-shopping the $2400 including everything but lens Canon 5D II) that an EVF is worth $2950.

 

[JBeattie]

I've always looked at a camera as a rental item a production should be getting from a rental house.

Most of the jobs I've done this year are RED ( i work as a camera op & steadicam op mostly indie in NY) I am really thinking about adding a scarlet to my equipment list.

I will wait and see how the various scarlet models work once they hit the real work. But I think that the 2/3 (on paper) with a set of mini primes. May work out to be a really good b/steadicam setup.

I have seen the posts about the fear of a longer sharp fov. But for steadicam that could really work out in the op's and the first's favor as things happen all the time while shooting that aren't quite to plan.

I figure that the 2/3 will be in the 20-30 pound range once all the gack is on it and it will a camera I can fly all day.

 

[Joe G.]

"But for steadicam that could really work out in the op's and the first's favor as things happen all the time while shooting that aren't quite to plan. "

In my limited opinion on this, I'm sold on the FF35 simply for the expanded dynamic range. For Steadicam work (day exterior), you are going to have even less control of the lighting. The subjects are moving around and the sun in the background could suddenly blow out.

I'm convinced that the expanded dynamic range in the FF35 is the way to go, so as to minimize the possibility of blown out highlights. The Steadicam situation seems to point at the need for this expanded DR, as conditions are less likely to be completely controlled.

 

[Petr Dvorak]

Nobody from RED has confirmed either way, but I'm pretty sure the fixed-lens Scarlet's lens won't be removable in any way (i.e. permanently attached to the brain.) ....

No, it was cofirmed by Red, and explanation is that lens so huge that its burried by 1/3 of its lenght in the body. Thats why body is longer. Hence no swapable mount. :huh:

 

[JBeattie]

"But for steadicam that could really work out in the op's and the first's favor as things happen all the time while shooting that aren't quite to plan. "

In my limited opinion on this, I'm sold on the FF35 simply for the expanded dynamic range. For Steadicam work (day exterior), you are going to have even less control of the lighting. The subjects are moving around and the sun in the background could suddenly blow out.

I'm convinced that the expanded dynamic range in the FF35 is the way to go, so as to minimize the possibility of blown out highlights. The Steadicam situation seems to point at the need for this expanded DR, as conditions are less likely to be completely controlled.

That's an interesting point about the "latitude" have worked with the varicam, hvx, various Sony hd cameras. I have not run into that issue a lot. You can always have a Dp or ac pull iris wireless. There are a number of lossless hd transmitters out or coming out too that will make it easy to pull from.

Again have to wait for them to come out before putting any money down.