Which audio tracks to use?

[Joe Riggs]

I have a project where they recorded 2 channels to a sound device - (1 boom, 1 lav), at they same time they also feed a direct feed from the mixer into the camera, delivering the same 2 channels (1 boom, 1 lav).

99% of the time, I would always sync to the separate sound mixers audio but in this case since it is only 2 channels, with a direct feed, and when evaluating the recording, they are nearly identical (the feed to the camera actually being a little stronger). Therefore, I'm inclined to use the feed from the camera this time.


Is there anything i could be missing by going this route?

Thanks

 

[Mike P.]

You're not missing anything. Pundits will likely poo-poo on you for using "camera audio", but the end result won't be discernibly different unless you're really stretching/manipulating that audio (and even then the differences probably wouldn't be noticeable).

The only thing I can think of is you'll want to make sure to fill the tracks to the other/opposite channel, so that the tracks aren't coming in on one-ear/one-side... (takes 2 clicks in most NLEs).

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

I agree with Mike. We always record double-system using a 788T, but we almost always use a four-track feed to the camera on our films using our RED One. It sounds very, very good.

Stephen

 

[Marc Wielage]

You're not missing anything. Pundits will likely poo-poo on you for using "camera audio", but the end result won't be discernibly different unless you're really stretching/manipulating that audio (and even then the differences probably wouldn't be noticeable).

Oh... yes it will be. If there's any issues with overload or noise, trust me, it'll be worse using the camera. Don't forget that you can't easily adjust camera audio while it's being recorded (because the camera operator has his or her hands full), and also that you get zero audio in anything but normal-speed recording. There are many, many good reasons to record sound on an external audio recorder -- if only for the reason that this way, you have a backup in case something goes wrong (which happens more often than you might think).

BUT: I think in a low-ball sit-down documentary, if it's a very simple set-up and you have (say) the interviewer's lav in one channel and the subject's lav in the other channel, sure -- it's not going to be the end of the world if there's no sound recorder. But that's provided nobody yells and the conditions are very controlled, and the camera is very reliable and the audio is being monitored. News people and network documentary crews do this all the time. It works fine.

For scripted dramatic situations, though, I think it's a very bad idea, particularly when the conditions are more unpredictable, there's more audio tracks, and there's a lot of noise issues to deal with. The key is for the editor to know not to mix the two channels together, but instead only use one at a time. Mixing them both will often give you double the background noise, since you're recording the room itself from two different positions.

 

[Mike P.]

All of that is true; I was going at it from a "if the audio captured is free enough of problems so that you don't need to use the separately acquired isos" then what the camera captured is likely more than acceptable. And naturally, if he's asking, the production likely doesn't require the recorder files (though, I'd still archive them).

But yeah, it seemed that Joe was saying "the cam audio is good; do I *need* to sync for some unforeseen technical reason?" And I was just saying that there isn't (if it sounds good, it'll work as he hopes it does).

Oh and that double noise tip is a goodie.

 

[Jim Hoffman]

Let your ears decide. Or if you don't trust them bring in someone you do trust. I'm sure both are very usable.

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

The real issue with mixing a lav with an overhead is more likely to be phasing issues rather than noise.

Stephen

 

[Marc Wielage]

The real issue with mixing a lav with an overhead is more likely to be phasing issues rather than noise.

It depends on what they're picking up, but yes, that can be true. I usually run with lavs on all speaking actors, but rely on the boom for 90% of the mix whenever possible, going with who ever is on camera at the moment. I trust the dialog editor to use the best out of all the mics and determine how to EQ the lavs to match them as much as possible with the boom, if they're used.

But I would never bring them all up at the same time. Faders are going up and down during the mix, so when you're hearing a lav, no way would you hear the boom fully up. And if the boom is on actor A, you're not going to hear actor A's lav at all.