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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Where is the film-industry heading?

Francesco Bonomo said:
... but more about the fact that 3/4 of the movies announced so far on the Epic are a) sequels/reboots/remakes and b) in 3D. ...
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Yes..noticed this also. It's pretty much the state of the industry now.
Anything different that comes out otherwise is an exception.
original Underworld came out in 2003 and at rate it's going..in 2020
Underworld 8 is going to be out. Even though the average box office
of the first 3 Underworlds is just $99 million
http://boxofficemojo.com/search/?q=underworld

Fact is before 2000 movies and music were sorta only game in town
for cheap entertainment. But in last 10 years movies compete with
photo-real video games..couple hundred tv cable channels..
fast-internet connections..youtube...and whole social
myspace/facebook whatever that's all about..people seem to like it.

As for smaller autuer films..who knows..Soderbergh has been trying
this without red and now with red since way back in the '80s-'90s. And
the struggle his last few films have faced to find a release and audiences
seems to have made him consider retirement to an extent.
 
Don't worry, it wont be long before Hollywood crumbles.

The number one movie in the UK at the moment is The King's Speech; which proves if cinemas actually play intelligent, well made movies then people will pay to come and watch them.

Hollywood doesn't make movies, it launches big budget marketing campaigns. This is a business model that has served them well for a decade or more; they spend their money, they sell their toys - they don't care if the movie is any good, why should they? They're playing with a loaded deck.

For my money things are set to change, and change radically, though not because of Epic making it cheaper to make a cinema production, (though that will help) but because of high speed internet. Believe me, it's coming and it will change everything. Not just cinema or TV, but the whole way you interact with society.

In terms of movies, and with TV in a state of terminal decline, we are set for an explosion of downloadable/real-time streamable, high quality content. Content that is made outside of Hollywood and isn't affected by huge marketing campaigns but is chosen on the basis of whether it is any good or not. Forget multi-screens, it will be like visiting the British Library to choose a book.

Personally, I can't wait...
 
"For my money things are set to change, and change radically, though not because of Epic making it cheaper to make a cinema production, (though that will help) but because of high speed internet. "​

I think you're a little late on this one. For twenty years they've been saying this. And before that TV was supposed to kill off the theaters.

People will always want to get out of their houses and experience something new. It's just like church. They want to experience something mystical, as a group, in an impressive setting. It's a basic human desire.

I don't see that changing because of a faster connection. They already have TV, by the hundreds of channels. Right there, in that same old familiar place. It's less than special. Less than a religious event.

They go to the cinema in the hopes of adding something to their mundane little lives -- and are often disappointed by the "product" they are shoveled. Cest la vie.
 
Joe G. said:
"For my money things are set to change, and change radically, though not because of Epic making it cheaper to make a cinema production, (though that will help) but because of high speed internet. "​

I think you're a little late on this one. For twenty years they've been saying this. And before that TV was supposed to kill off the theaters.

People will always want to get out of their houses and experience something new. It's just like church. They want to experience something mystical, as a group, in an impressive setting. It's a basic human desire.

I don't see that changing because of a faster connection. They already have TV, by the hundreds of channels. Right there, in that same old familiar place. It's less than special. Less than a religious event.

They go to the cinema in the hopes of adding something to their mundane little lives -- and are often disappointed by the "product" they are shoveled. Cest la vie.
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Nope. Not late at all. The technology isn't here yet. It's coming though, there's no doubt about that.

There will always be cinema, I agree, indeed I think it's quite possible there'll be an explosion in independent cinemas, but I don't think church is a basic human desire, it's social conditioning and social conditioning changes with time. If you want to know what the future will look like watch your kids. Mine interact with media in a completely different way to how I did. They download, they stream. They don't sit around waiting for their show to start.

Also, also, people may have hundreds of TV channels, but who needs TV channels when you can download/stream whatever content you want in UHD in real time or faster. I don't want some spotty gimp telling me what I can watch and when - I can manage that quite well on my own...
 
Jeff Coatney said:
As the brick and mortar retail stores move the shopping experience to the internet, we'll see more culturally relevant businesses begin to invade this space. Communal spaces for people to congregate like off-site remote office workers. Places like Starbucks, restaurants, comedy clubs, bars, bookstores, designed indoor playspaces for children. Its in these venues that I see viable screening facilities emerge.

We'll also see groups of like-minded film-goers band together and rent facilities in the established chains for local screenings. I think we'll also see more non-studio content in the larger, corporate owned cinemas, streamed in via satellite, broadband, and Red Ray shown between, before and after the Hollywood stuff. Some Cinemas will be 24 hour establishments.

Its important to note that while I believe the aggregate market for arthouse cinema will eclipse Hollywood, the individual filmmaker and the cast and crews won't see the financial rewards that a blockbuster wide release could garner. There will be stand-outs, exceptions, but the possibility that you could become a professional filmmaker, shooting and exhibiting your own content in a communal space-- I see that as increasing in likelihood. I can see professional micro-studios emerging across the world regionally and many filmmakers able to make a modest living doing this.

Self-publishing cinema if you will. Why not? For a Starbucks-like chain-- it would be a huge boon. Imagine REI hosting a monthly festival of extreme sports films.
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It's all about the script - Hollywood films have scripts that are worked on for over a year, in most cases - they are very tight, they make sense to the average person. Most indy films I've seen have badly structured, talky scripts that meander nowhere along with depressing, down endings. That's why audiences don't like them.

Add to that the fact that audiences don't like a "gritty" no makeup ugly dingy aesthetic - also often found in indy films.

Indy films which are NOT like this, Black Swan, Little Miss Sunshine, etc. actually always have always done very well.
 
Liam Hall said:
Don't worry, it wont be long before Hollywood crumbles.

The number one movie in the UK at the moment is The King's Speech; which proves if cinemas actually play intelligent, well made movies then people will pay to come and watch them.

Hollywood doesn't make movies, it launches big budget marketing campaigns. This is a business model that has served them well for a decade or more; they spend their money, they sell their toys - they don't care if the movie is any good, why should they? They're playing with a loaded deck.

For my money things are set to change, and change radically, though not because of Epic making it cheaper to make a cinema production, (though that will help) but because of high speed internet. Believe me, it's coming and it will change everything. Not just cinema or TV, but the whole way you interact with society.

In terms of movies, and with TV in a state of terminal decline, we are set for an explosion of downloadable/real-time streamable, high quality content. Content that is made outside of Hollywood and isn't affected by huge marketing campaigns but is chosen on the basis of whether it is any good or not. Forget multi-screens, it will be like visiting the British Library to choose a book.

Personally, I can't wait...
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Here, here! Well said, indeed.
 
Rob Ruffo said:
It's all about the script - Hollywood films have scripts that are worked on for over a year, in most cases - they are very tight, they make sense to the average person. Most indy films I've seen have badly structured, talky scripts that meander nowhere along with depressing, down endings. That's why audiences don't like them.

Add to that the fact that audiences don't like a "gritty" no makeup ugly dingy aesthetic - also often found in indy films.

Indy films which are NOT like this, Black Swan, Little Miss Sunshine, etc. actually always have always done very well.
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I agree 100% with all these points. Historically "Arthouse" has had the connotation of "filmmaking as therapy"-- dysfunctional people rendering their dysfunctions on the screen as a means of dealing with trauma, being an outcast, etc. But I can see this changing as more people get access to technology.
 
Rob Ruffo said:
It's all about the script - Hollywood films have scripts that are worked on for over a year, in most cases - they are very tight, they make sense to the average person. Most indy films I've seen have badly structured, talky scripts that meander nowhere along with depressing, down endings. That's why audiences don't like them.

Add to that the fact that audiences don't like a "gritty" no makeup ugly dingy aesthetic - also often found in indy films.

Indy films which are NOT like this, Black Swan, Little Miss Sunshine, etc. actually always have always done very well.
Click to expand...
Hear, hear!
 
Production values are important, actors are important, cinematography, sound, direction, etc. But it's about the story, a satisfying story, a good script, and great characters, that's what makes for great films, just like it's what makes for a great book.
 
Richard Foster said:
Production values are important, actors are important, cinematography, sound, direction, etc. But it's about the story, a satisfying story, a good script, and great characters, that's what makes for great films, just like it's what makes for a great book.
Click to expand...

well said.

The Whole Is Equal To The Sum Of Its Parts, made artistically you create magic.
 
Rob Ruffo said:
It's all about the script - Hollywood films have scripts that are worked on for over a year, in most cases - they are very tight, they make sense to the average person. Most indy films I've seen have badly structured, talky scripts that meander nowhere along with depressing, down endings. That's why audiences don't like them.

Add to that the fact that audiences don't like a "gritty" no makeup ugly dingy aesthetic - also often found in indy films.

Indy films which are NOT like this, Black Swan, Little Miss Sunshine, etc. actually always have always done very well.
Click to expand...

100% wrong.

Hollywood has never been about the script. If it was, then scriptwriters would be the highest paid professionals in town. In reality scriptwriting fees have been diminishing in recent years.

In fact the script is held in such low regard in Hollywood that many high budget films have started principle photography without a locked script.

Hollywood is about the "deal". It's always been about the "deal", but where as once the "deal" was about what actor, what director and what other key talent would make the film it is nowadays about what products can be aligned with the it; what toys, what game, what breakfast cereals, cars, clothes...

You're right that Hollywood films are aimed at the "average person" and there-in lies another major problem with many Hollywood features - they play to the lowest common denominator - in fact I think their pitch is lower.

Give me Guillermo del Toro over Michael Bay any day of the week...
 
Rob Ruffo said:
...Add to that the fact that audiences don't like a "gritty" no makeup ugly dingy aesthetic - also often found in indy films...
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http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi3239184153/

Gritty worked out for Winter's Bone. 4 Academy Award nominations..
included Best Picture and Best Lead Actress.

Granted..do get your point..but seems like the films that do pop out
are the ones that really push their aesthetic all the way..whether
it be "gritty" or "slick". Doesn't matter. It's one way to stand out
in a crowded..marketplace. Of course you still need the story part.
 
Liam Hall said:
100% wrong.

Hollywood has never been about the script. If it was, then scriptwriters would be the highest paid professionals in town. In reality scriptwriting fees have been diminishing in recent years.

In fact the script is held in such low regard in Hollywood that many high budget films have started principle photography without a locked script.

Hollywood is about the "deal". It's always been about the "deal", but where as once the "deal" was about what actor, what director and what other key talent would make the film it is nowadays about what products can be aligned with the it; what toys, what game, what breakfast cereals, cars, clothes...

You're right that Hollywood films are aimed at the "average person" and there-in lies another major problem with many Hollywood features - they play to the lowest common denominator - in fact I think their pitch is lower.

Give me Guillermo del Toro over Michael Bay any day of the week...
Click to expand...

There is a difference between a script you personally like, and a script a wide audience will like. Same goes for cinematography. I am not in the business of personally pleasing you.

Reading your post, you do not have actual experience working in Hollywood screenwriting, and your angry negative, disrespectful attitude toward the studio system and the people who work very hard in it will keep you out.

But I suppose you can feel morally superior, and that will make you feel better. Although when people tell me they would never "sell out" for $400 000 a script, I never actually believe them. It's very hard to write a Hollywood script, which is why they are so expensive.

I do not look down on the audiences for the things I work on - average, hard working people wanting some escape and laughter, people you obviously feel you are "above" because they don't like depressing films with no plots as much as you do.
 
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Rob Ruffo said:
There is a difference between a script you personally like, and a script a wide audience will like. Same goes for cinematography. I am not in the business of personally pleasing you.

Reading your post, you do not have actual experience working in Hollywood screenwriting, and your angry negative, disrespectful attitude toward the studio system and the people who work very hard in it will keep you out.

But I suppose you can feel morally superior, and that will make you feel better. Although when people tell me they would never "sell out" for $400 000 a script, I never actually believe them. It's very hard to write a Hollywood script, which is why they are so expensive.

I do not look down on the audiences for the things I work on - average, hard working people wanting some escape and laughter, people you obviously feel you are "above" because they don't like depressing films with no plots as much as you do.
Click to expand...

Rob, I have first hand experience working at Warners, Sony Entertainment, BMG, Universal and many, many other leading media companies. I know how it floats.

I'm not angry in any way. Just realistic. I've been part of the system. I've taken their money and continue to do so. I'm a complete sell-out mercenary and have no axe to grind on a business level. None. As usual, you're reading me wrong.

Why do you equate indie films with depression and a lack of plot? If indie films were so bad, why do Hollywood studios continue to buy them up? Why do successful independent directors get courted by fawning Hollywood execs? Why do interesting, edgy or clever indie films get remade by Hollywood? Why do... you get the point.

Honestly Rob, you do have an over-simplistic view of the world. I suggest you recalibrate - you could start with the assumption that I'm not quite as big an A-hole as you think I am.

Kind regards,

Liam.
 
Liam Hall said:
Rob, I have first hand experience working at Warners, Sony Entertainment, BMG, Universal and many, many other leading media companies. I know how it floats.

I'm not angry in any way. Just realistic. I've been part of the system. I've taken their money and continue to do so. I'm a complete sell-out mercenary and have no axe to grind on a business level. None. As usual, you're reading me wrong.

Why do you equate indie films with depression and a lack of plot? If indie films were so bad, why do Hollywood studios continue to buy them up? Why do successful independent directors get courted by fawning Hollywood execs? Why do interesting, edgy or clever indie films get remade by Hollywood? Why do... you get the point.

Honestly Rob, you do have an over-simplistic view of the world. I suggest you recalibrate - you could start with the assumption that I'm not quite as big an A-hole as you think I am.

Kind regards,

Liam.
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Fair enough. But I disagree that script choice is just "about the deal". Hollywood mainstream production contains some toy or other ancillary profit driven content, but that is not everything mainstream Hollywood produces, nor does Hollywood merely rip-off indy films. Some of the greatest writing minds the world has ever known are now writing for studios, as you read this, and, as you read this, agents and execs are scouring the globe to find new such talent. I used to have that job - talent finder. Working two years and reading hundreds of scripts I found one person.

My view is not really simplistic. Portraying high-budget Hollywood as a monolithic monster IS simplistic, and unrealistic. Hollywood produced both "Inception" and "Driven". Hollywood has many factions and subcultures that don't even talk much with each other. Hollywood is many things.

I also never said all indy films were crap, but anyone ever having visited Sundance, especially since the recent regime change at that festival, realizes that you better be ready to be bored, depressed, and to look at a lot of harshly lit bad skin not benefiting from makeup, and to listen to a lot of mumbled dialogue about the meaning of relationships or the filmmaker's own navel.

Sorry, but this is my reaction to 99% of indy films. I am under no obligation to like them just because some pompous person at Cannes or Sundance says I should. I have no interested in being socially accepted by film-snobs, or any snobs for that matter.

Money is no excuse. Makeup doesn't cost much, and a tight script is just a matter of sweat equity.

That other 1% is extremely wonderful, and worth the effort to find, but I would argue that that other 1% has always been (usually) successful and always will be.

The reality is that most people cannot put together a fun to watch film - it's really, really hard to do, and the indy film scene has few to no competent gatekeepers, and those that do exist seem to have utter contempt for the common man.
 
Rob Ruffo said:
Fair enough. But I disagree that script choice is just "about the deal". Hollywood mainstream production contains some toy or other ancillary profit driven content, but that is not everything mainstream Hollywood produces, nor does Hollywood merely rip-off indy films. Some of the greatest writing minds the world has ever known are now writing for studios, as you read this, and, as you read this, agents and execs are scouring the globe to find new such talent. I used to have that job - talent finder. Working two years and reading hundreds of scripts I found one person.

My view is not really simplistic. Portraying high-budget Hollywood as a monolithic monster IS simplistic, and unrealistic. Hollywood produced both "Inception" and "Driven". Hollywood has many factions and subcultures that don't even talk much with each other. Hollywood is many things.

I also never said all indy films were crap, but anyone ever having visited Sundance, especially since the recent regime change at that festival, realizes that you better be ready to be bored, depressed, and to look at a lot of harshly lit bad skin not benefiting from makeup, and to listen to a lot of mumbled dialogue about the meaning of relationships or the filmmaker's own navel.

Sorry, but this is my reaction to 99% of indy films. I am under no obligation to like them just because some pompous person at Cannes or Sundance says I should. I have no interested in being socially accepted by film-snobs, or any snobs for that matter.

Money is no excuse. Makeup doesn't cost much, and a tight script is just a matter of sweat equity.

That other 1% is extremely wonderful, and worth the effort to find, but I would argue that that other 1% has always been (usually) successful and always will be.

The reality is that most people cannot put together a fun to watch film - it's really, really hard to do, and the indy film scene has few to no competent gatekeepers, and those that do exist seem to have utter contempt for the common man.
Click to expand...

I largely agree. Not all Hollywood movies are tosh and the vast majority of Indie films are unwatchable.

It will be interesting to see what people will choose to watch when there is a near-level playing field in terms of distribution, that will undoubtedly come when the next-generation internet arrives. For my money, we'll continue to see the media giants buy-up any independent company that has success, whether it's a game, a movie or anything else; we wont see an increased spend in script development from the Studious, but we will see an increase in PR and marketing budgets. Make a movie - sell burgers, has been an effective business model for them in the past, whether it will remain so in the future is anyone's guess:)
 
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