When Will EPIC Cost the Same as a Scarlet?

[Tom Wardrop]

This is a bit of a hypothetical question. When do you think we'll be able to get the capabilities of an EPIC, i.e. 120fps at 5k, at the cost of a Scarlet? Right now, the difference is $10,000 vs $21,000. Given the costs of all the accessories (lenses, SSD's, modules, etc), it'd probably be more like $25000 vs $ 35000 which personally, means if I was to invest in one of these cameras, the EPIC would be the go. Anyway, when do you think we'll get 120fps at 5k for under $10000? One year, two years, three years, ... ?

 

[Nick Morrison]

This is a bit of a hypothetical question. When do you think we'll be able to get the capabilities of an EPIC, i.e. 120fps at 5k, at the cost of a Scarlet? Right now, the difference is $10,000 vs $21,000. Given the costs of all the accessories (lenses, SSD's, modules, etc), it'd probably be more like $25000 vs $ 35000 which personally, means if I was to invest in one of these cameras, the EPIC would be the go. Anyway, when do you think we'll get 120fps at 5k for under $10000? One year, two years, three years, ... ?

Realistically, Scarlet users wont even be able to upgrade to Dragon till sometime in 2014. So that will be (presumably) 5K 24fps. And that will (presumably) cost more than the current Scarlet. 5K 120fps will (presumably) only hit the Scarlet till the sensor AFTER Dragon (Colossus?). I'd say 5 years.

Ie don't hold your breath. If you wait too long, your entire life will have passed you by.

 

[Tom Wardrop]

I'm not really asking when Scarlet will get 5k @ 120 fps. I'm asking when we'll get 5k @ 120 fps (EPIC's current capabilities) in any package for the current cost of the scarlet. A similar question would be: when will the current EPIC be available for $10,000 new?

 

[Valentin Paris]

I would say before the end of 2013.

2013 will be the 4K year.

In 6 month, you can be sure sony will cut de price of 30% for the F55/F5, or maybe offer accessories, as usual, sony can be very agressive.

Red will follow all the price drop on the prosumer market with similar camera.

In addition, when the dragon will be released, it will be a new EPIC dragon camera with a new price, so the classic epic price will be probably better than today.

The price drop on the epic had finished to kill the second hand market on this camera, that is very very sad. Nobody wants to sell Epic camera now...

So, let's the time play but be sure, it will be faster that everyone expect.

 

[George Butterfield]

This is a bit of a hypothetical question. ... Anyway, when do you think we'll get 120fps at 5k for under $10000? One year, two years, three years, ... ?

You might get an Epic next year for 10K, then again with Quantitative Easing, if we get hyper inflation, used Epics might demand 250K. You never know about the future, you pays your money and you makes your choice.

 

[Tom Wardrop]

I'm hoping that spending $15k in a year or two on RED may get me the camera and accessories that $30k+ will get me today. RED can't continue to justify the cost of their media for much longer. I'll be very suspicious and upset if RED charge any more than $300 for a 128GB SSD this time next year, considering high-end (by todays standards) 128GB consumer SSD's will probably be around $60 this time next year.

 

[Daniel Pearson]

I don't think the price of Epic will really go down - it will stay the same with the specs constantly going up. Re: redmags, I dont see them getting too cheap, but bigger and faster for roughly the same prices.

 

[Valentin Paris]

I don't think the price of Epic will really go down - it will stay the same with the specs constantly going up. Re: redmags, I dont see them getting too cheap, but bigger and faster for roughly the same prices.

If you are right, it doesn't make sens.

The price drop of 45% was probably to give this amazing tool to the (rich) indy filmakers.

Why the red Epic has to stay at a price where only pros and rich independants can pay ?

If the RED enterprise wants to continue to make some revolutions, the 5K 120 fps for everyone has to arrive =

A Red Epic Package ready to shoot without a lens around 20000 USD will be great.

Ho, and about the RED SSD, people buy them because they don't have any other choice. Pay 1250 USD for 128Go ssd in a nice metal box is just freaking crazy.

I hope that : when the dragon EPIC will be here, the old classic EPIC will be the new Scarlet.

Red Team, if you read that, please make this revolution !

 

[BRANDON JAMESON]

When your VW turns into a Porsche and your Chevy Lumina costs the same as a Corvette.

 

[Wil Wong]

R1 took till 2012 to go down drastically. That's about 4 years. I agree that it won't drop any time soon. Not until the trade-in program is done and perhaps the next new camera is out (like 2015). We might hear about the new camera in 2014 and be lucky to get ideas in 2013 NAB (which is still too soon to really mean anything), it simply will be hype and buzz till it comes out years later. Dragon is this year's camera. Even sellers of Epic-X won't deny the opportunity to get as more money since they know people can upgrade to the Epic-D.

Eventually, I'm sure we will see Scarlet prices but only after the Scarlet is long gone or hitting the same Battle Tested route that R1 just did (still years aways in my opinion as it will take a year to complete the stage and upgrading process for all existing customers). My thoughts...

 

[Todd T]

The R1 didn't really go down in price. It sold for years at $17,500 for the M and $25,000 for the MX.

The R1 INVENTORY was liquidated when RED finally declared the R! EOL'd, (with at least 2 years notice)

The liquidation price was never an indication of the retail price or even the residual value of the camera; it was a short lived, one time event.

It was a boon to anyone who was able to take advantage of that opportunity, but it was not a trend.

Too many people can't seem grasp this concept and complain that Epic/Scarlet systems are too expensive in comparison.

I can only imagine the frustration at RED with the recent pricing adjustment on EPIC/Scarlet, where it seems just as many people are saying that the cameras now too inexpensive to be considered professional equipment, and will not be taken seriously by producers who will opt for the more expensive (arri, canon, sony) camera systems.

I, for one, am happy with the price I paid for my Scarlet.

I greatly appreciate that RED has greatly reduced the transition to EPIC.

I am ecstatic that RED, once again, is standing by their motto of Obsolescence Obsolete and providing path for Scarlet Owners to move to Dragon.

I expect RED to price their systems at what they calculate is the best price point for their business goals, as I will make my purchase decisions based on the capability and pricing that meets my business goals.

Personally, I think it is bad business planning to rely on spontaneous liquidation events, but I think it is great to take advantage of them if the timing is right.

 

[Greg F]

*snip*

Boom goes the Dynamite!

If its not Professional Equipment as its too cheap then the 5D Mark III is about as unprofessional as it gets... This is sad given that there is some great work on it.

 

[Marc Wielage]

I would say before the end of 2013. 2013 will be the 4K year.

Let's wait and see what happens at NAB in April 2013. Guaranteed, there will be a half-dozen new choices there -- some horrible, some OK, some brilliant.

 

[Todd T]

Exactly, the professionalism of the equipment should be judged on capability and results, not price

Boom goes the Dynamite!

If its not Professional Equipment as its too cheap then the 5D Mark III is about as unprofessional as it gets... This is sad given that there is some great work on it.

 

[Simon Knight]

Surely its all about basic economics isn't it? Demand and Supply? I wonder how many actual RED cameras there are out there? say 4000 or so? Against how many Canon/Nikon etc?
I wonder if the same discussion is going on over at the Alexa forum? In the professional world prices stay pretty much the same as the budgets can be justified. It's only when a consumer device comes into the field and messes things up that prices go crazy. (Canon 5dMk2 for example)

In the consumer world there are very few that know about and WANT 4K.. there are even fewer that know WHY 4K is important... most are still getting their heads around 1080p...

SK

 

[Shane Kelly]

If you are right, it doesn't make sens.

The price drop of 45% was probably to give this amazing tool to the (rich) indy filmakers.

Why the red Epic has to stay at a price where only pros and rich independants can pay ?

The price drop was to compete with sony's announcement of the f5/f55. So now there's a huge price drop and you are still complaining? Do you want red to give the cameras away for free?

 

[Brian Merlen]

I don't think prices will go down further, at least not unless your buying it used, or after Dragon is out. But there are plenty of owner ops out there looking for work that can rent cheap, or have a package deal. For instance I own a Scarlet and try to rent it along with my data wrangling services. So there are many options when it comes to getting your hands on a Red, even without taking ownership. If you have a project your working on I along with my Scarlet am available for at least the next 3 weeks (maybe 5 weeks, still awaiting closure on my next contract date). Thanks

 

[Mike P.]

I think the R1 staying pretty much the same price (went up actually) for ~4 years was probably due mostly to the fact that there was absolutely no other digital camera that competed (s35/4k/raw). Epic was out for barely a year and dropped by half as soon as Sony announced their (similarly priced) 4k/raw offerings. If the rest of the manufacturers announce s35/4k+/raw cameras at NAB for around the same price, by fall 2013 the Epic-Dragon price will probably be the same $21k that Epic-X is now (if not lower), at which point used Epic-X brains will probably go for much less (at least $6k cheaper than $21k to compensate for the Dragon-upgrade). If not fall 2013, than spring 2014. Of course, that assumes that Dragon upgrades will have started rolling out by April, which may be unlikely.

Last years price drop is as good an indication as any; there is no reason to expect prices to be as stable as they were, particularly with a company that is as responsive/reactionary as RED is capable of being. Remember, RED doesn't have stockholders to answer to (Canon, Sony, etc do). The other thing is, if the cost of manufacturing/assembly can go down by half in 12months, there is nothing to indicate why it wouldn't go down by another 1/2 in another 12 months as per the same logic that RED used this past fall.

That's my 2cents anyway. I'd guess used Epic-X brains going for ~$10-12k in Fall 2014 at the latest.

 

[Luke Kokinos]

Well, if we're talking new, not anytime soon. There will no doubt be a price hike after Dragon drops. But after Dragon comes out, look to the used market, friend. Hard telling if it will go below $10,000, but for an MX Epic, you might be looking at something close to that. Maybe $15,000 Brain, side SSD and PL mount. I mean, this is under the condition that not every Epic owner upgrades, which will be very close to the truth, I think.