When do you stop writing?

[Sareesh Sudhakaran]

I've been writing fictional scripts for fifteen years (both short and feature length).

This year, I'm getting into 2-5 minute corporate videos. I've been shooting these videos but have never had to deal with clients directly for the stories or scripts.

My problem is that I can get too creative for my own good. I know from experience that I can write a 5-minute script in a day (the labor part). And I also know that I can look at thousands of work available online to copy ideas or whatever.

Questions:

At what point should one stop writing a first draft for a 5 minute corporate video? How much time and effort do you put aside for this aspect of the business?

How do you deal with script nuances and inexperienced clients? E.g., if a client asks you to clarify a certain section of the script, how do you go about it without sounding like a textbook on calculus?

If these questions have been answered already, I will really appreciate links. Thanks for the help!

 

[John Marchant]

Scripts, storyboards, animatics, in fact just about any kind of normal planning and pre-vis tool that we normally rely on can turn into a nightmare with corporates. Its a foreign tongue for them, and all their mental effort can be consumed just following it.

We make a point of learning and working in their language in order to communicate our intentions successfully. Its different from business to business. Sometimes that means adapting to deliver our concepts in the form of powerpoint presentations, microsoft project documents, excel spreadsheets.... anything to get the corporate in their comfort zone, so the focus is on content, not communicating about the content.

A script is still a script delivered in Excel - a screenplay obfuscates the meaning for the uninitiated, where you and I would see it as a window to the story.

 

[David Battistella]

A great writing friend of mine has a great saying.

"A script is never finished, it's just abandoned to production"

This would not apply to corporate clients. John has very good advice, determine if the client needs high concept and if they do not, move toward the best mode of communication for that client to accomplish the task.

david

 

[Sareesh Sudhakaran]

Scripts, storyboards, animatics, in fact just about any kind of normal planning and pre-vis tool that we normally rely on can turn into a nightmare with corporates. Its a foreign tongue for them, and all their mental effort can be consumed just following it.

We make a point of learning and working in their language in order to communicate our intentions successfully. Its different from business to business. Sometimes that means adapting to deliver our concepts in the form of powerpoint presentations, microsoft project documents, excel spreadsheets.... anything to get the corporate in their comfort zone, so the focus is on content, not communicating about the content.

A script is still a script delivered in Excel - a screenplay obfuscates the meaning for the uninitiated, where you and I would see it as a window to the story.

Thank you, John. That's very helpful. Do you have a time frame for each script, excluding the Previz? Or am I thinking about this the wrong way?

How would you deal with clients demanding fast turnarounds?

 

[Sareesh Sudhakaran]

A great writing friend of mine has a great saying.

"A script is never finished, it's just abandoned to production"

This would not apply to corporate clients. John has very good advice, determine if the client needs high concept and if they do not, move toward the best mode of communication for that client to accomplish the task.

david

That's exactly my problem! Are there any rules of thumb that apply here at all?

 

[David Battistella]

You have to use your intuition or your felt sense.

This tends to involve a deeper listening and an understanding of what is needed putting aside what you know. We are in the realm of finite communication here.

One thing you might do is to engage someone you trust in your business's to be the buffer (listener) in case this is a blind spot for you.

david

 

[Sareesh Sudhakaran]

Thanks, David. Guess I'll have to learn the hard way!

 

[Josh Miller]

Also, a major learning curve for me was being prepared for whoever your dealing with to have a change or changes, and then his manager have changes, then the marketing director to have changes, then the janitor cleaning the companies bathroom having changes, etc...

I'm joking about the janitor obviously but what I've learned from corporate stuff is that everyone feels the need to speak up. It might be to justify their job or to impress their boss but don't be scared or annoyed when lots of people speak up about changes as it goes up the ladder for approval. If they are really dumb changes that you know will be impossible to pull off given your equipment/expertise or will greatly deflect the video from it's primary purpose you can most likely get out of it by spinning their idea into your idea and making them think they can take credit for it. Another option would be to set an end date for changes. Let them know that to keep in budget you need to start production on day X. This usually gets them off your back with changes that keep going, and going, and going...

 

[C.H.Haskell]

Short answer, you dont stop.

 

[John Marchant]

Also, a major learning curve for me was being prepared for whoever your dealing with to have a change or changes, and then his manager have changes, then the marketing director to have changes, then the janitor cleaning the companies bathroom having changes, etc...

I'm joking about the janitor obviously but what I've learned from corporate stuff is that everyone feels the need to speak up. It might be to justify their job or to impress their boss but don't be scared or annoyed when lots of people speak up about changes as it goes up the ladder for approval. If they are really dumb changes that you know will be impossible to pull off given your equipment/expertise or will greatly deflect the video from it's primary purpose you can most likely get out of it by spinning their idea into your idea and making them think they can take credit for it. Another option would be to set an end date for changes. Let them know that to keep in budget you need to start production on day X. This usually gets them off your back with changes that keep going, and going, and going...

Corporate people feel as though they're shirking responsibility if they don't make changes. A cynic might ensure that there's a black frame, jump cut or typo somewhere in the final approval copy, just so the client's last word is still under the producer's control

 

[Jean-Claude Benet]

I'm fond of a similiar quote about films in general from a famous director; "Films are never truly finished, only abandoned."

A great writing friend of mine has a great saying.

"A script is never finished, it's just abandoned to production"

This would not apply to corporate clients. John has very good advice, determine if the client needs high concept and if they do not, move toward the best mode of communication for that client to accomplish the task.

david

 

[Sareesh Sudhakaran]

Corporate people feel as though they're shirking responsibility if they don't make changes. A cynic might ensure that there's a black frame, jump cut or typo somewhere in the final approval copy, just so the client's last word is still under the producer's control

But what if they don't catch it?

 

[Sareesh Sudhakaran]

Also, a major learning curve for me was being prepared for whoever your dealing with to have a change or changes, and then his manager have changes, then the marketing director to have changes, then the janitor cleaning the companies bathroom having changes, etc...

I'm joking about the janitor obviously but what I've learned from corporate stuff is that everyone feels the need to speak up. It might be to justify their job or to impress their boss but don't be scared or annoyed when lots of people speak up about changes as it goes up the ladder for approval. If they are really dumb changes that you know will be impossible to pull off given your equipment/expertise or will greatly deflect the video from it's primary purpose you can most likely get out of it by spinning their idea into your idea and making them think they can take credit for it. Another option would be to set an end date for changes. Let them know that to keep in budget you need to start production on day X. This usually gets them off your back with changes that keep going, and going, and going...

Actually, I've been on the other side, as a client. Karma time.

Love the idea of 'spinning it around to give them credit'. One more thing to pull off!

 

[Simon Knight]

Surely the above point IS indeed the end... When the client misses it and says."yep, thats good" you walk away and count the cash...

I find its all about reading the audience and not the client... The client wants the best. End of... So look at what their audience wants.. or needs.. unlike a script where you're 'selling your soul' and want the best, with a corporate film its about imparting the information.. When that is done, your work is done.

And that brings us back to John's point about working closely with the client..

Hmm, circular argument me thinks...

SK

 

[David Battistella]

Thanks, David. Guess I'll have to learn the hard way!

For the record I am trying to be helpful. Sometimes with inexperienced clients you should take the time to walk them through process so that they have an understanding of the work being done and why it might be done that way.

David

 

[Christopher Mills]

I suggest the following process:
FIRST! you learn who will be commenting/reviewing, and in what order of seniority before you start writing a word.
Second, spend billable time learning their corporate identity and internal language. allow at least a couple days for this
Third A memo of purpose and goal for the script (try to get your draft done in one day.. then circulate this to your approval chain)
Fourth Actual first draft (you will know better than I what will work here
Fifth.. Approvals.. THEN.. client's legal reviewer
Sixth revision day
Seventh Approvals next round
Eighth (you hope) write shooting draft.
Ninth (you hope this is the last approvals before the shoot)
Tenth Shoot (with a client rep on hand with approval authority)
11th Into post.. (yes, there will still be re-writes in post much of the time)
I am not going to continue this list of work/approval cycles any longer.. but you need to give them a closing date.. Production is playtime for them, work for you.. and they will hit the end of their budgeted money long before you finish their desired changes.. almost always.. a fact which drives your bids

 

[Sareesh Sudhakaran]

...with a corporate film its about imparting the information.. When that is done, your work is done.

That's what I've been trying to tell myself. But sometimes we try to do too much good...

 

[Sareesh Sudhakaran]

For the record I am trying to be helpful. Sometimes with inexperienced clients you should take the time to walk them through process so that they have an understanding of the work being done and why it might be done that way.

David

Absolutely, I didn't mean anything sarcastic at all. It was purely a realization that the answer isn't as direct as I hoped it would be.

I have the problem of going into too much detail with clients, and this has burned me in the past.

 

[Sareesh Sudhakaran]

I suggest the following process:
FIRST! you learn who will be commenting/reviewing, and in what order of seniority before you start writing a word.
Second, spend billable time learning their corporate identity and internal language. allow at least a couple days for this
Third A memo of purpose and goal for the script (try to get your draft done in one day.. then circulate this to your approval chain)
Fourth Actual first draft (you will know better than I what will work here
Fifth.. Approvals.. THEN.. client's legal reviewer
Sixth revision day
Seventh Approvals next round
Eighth (you hope) write shooting draft.
Ninth (you hope this is the last approvals before the shoot)
Tenth Shoot (with a client rep on hand with approval authority)
11th Into post.. (yes, there will still be re-writes in post much of the time)
I am not going to continue this list of work/approval cycles any longer.. but you need to give them a closing date.. Production is playtime for them, work for you.. and they will hit the end of their budgeted money long before you finish their desired changes.. almost always.. a fact which drives your bids

Christopher, you understand me!

Excellent advice. A few clarifications:

1. When you say 'Memo' - who writes it? I'm assuming it is better for the client to dictate while I take notes, or should I ask for a written document from them?
2. This system assumes about a week of work prior to the actual shoot, correct? How do you handle clients who are 'late' with the approval process (for whatever reason)?
3. Any scenarios where it might take longer to write a first draft (prior to the approval process)?

Thanks a ton for the help. Appreciate it.

 

[Jason de Vyea]

John's advice was spot on. We've often scripted in Excel with columns for VO/dialogue, assets, visual description, graphics etc. We do a 6 frame storyboard to show the look of the motion graphics so that there's no big shock later. Get that all signed off. Occasionally we leave a few little changes for them at the last stage. Nothing as obvious as a black frame, but something like a close up that could easily be taken out or left in with no major effect either way.

Managing peoples expectations is difficult in any field. Working with film directors in grade can be really ridiculous. Having to explain that I'll try and make their low budget film shot in a broadcast TV studio look like 'Sweeney Todd' as they'd like, it might not be as achievable as they thought. Often working with corp clients can be less stressful, as they look to the production team for their expertise and insight. On the digital/commercial side, Agency culture varies between each agency, but they are often looking to pass blame (if something isn't perfect), which means nobody wants to sign off until the end client is super happy. I contract in 3 rounds of amends. Beyond that it starts eating into their budget which gives them a bit of a kick up the arse to get it finished and signoff.

As far as how much time to spend on script development. Depends on the project obviously. Usually I wouldn't spent too much time on a corporate maybe a day, but if it's consumer facing, good budget or a fun project I might spend up to a week for scripts, boards, visual ref, etc.

Good luck!