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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

When Digital Projectors rule

P

Peter Hodgins

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When Digital Projectors have replaced 24fps movie projectors in all the theaters, will it be easy to convert all the old films to 60fps so they have the desired digital look. (Ha, Ha)

It's coming! ... digital projectors ... 60fps ... the superior information and resolution of 60fps

get ready for the future ..... Digital Projection ... at the superior frame rate of 60fps.

the "Film Look" is DEAD Baby!

(a word to the wise is sufficient)
 
I'm shooting 1080p/60 (exclusively) but I've always been ahead of the pack!
 
Well, I hope they keep 24fps originated material at 24 frames, and probably they will, since even the least discerning audiences can pick up something "wrong" with films interpolated to 60fps and projectors can use either rate without problem. But aside from that, I CANNOT WAIT FOR THE DAY WHEN ALL PROJECTION IS DIGITAL TO HAPPEN SOON ENOUGH!!! I'm at the point now where I don't watch anything in the cinemas unless is being shown on the digital screens, otherwise, I usually bypass it unless it is a substantial piece of work. I've had it with the flicker and instability of film projectors and the grain, splotches, scratches, brilliance degradation and wear and tear of films when projected for 6-7 times a day non stop for weeks at a time...
 
Frame rate will be stylistic choice then... Maybe on-the-fly switchable between scenes.

Slow actor oriented scene, 24 fps.
Crazy explosion debris flying scene, 60fps.

I like the 24fps look, I don't think it should die.

I was at a local store some days ago and there were two full HD LCDs playing Die Hard 4... One had that frame interpolation stuff that makes it look like 60p. I didn't like it one bit.

The other was... Hmm, Scarlet, lol... It looked quite good. Perhaps sharpening was a bit too much though.
 
Yes, it is only reasonable that the frame rate will become a cinematic choice rather than a rigid imposition. We haven't been anchored to a 180 degree shutter or a T5.6 stop so why should we be stuck with 24fps - which is then double flashed to fake 48fps because a true 24fps looks horrible.

What I want is a variable frequency projector that work at any desired rate up to 120Hz. It would be able to drop to 48Hz and match up to the stodgy conservative 24fps... or even drop to 24Hz to give that strobing effect. Adjust to 50Hz for those parts of the world that work at 25 or 50fps. Ramping up to 120Hz showing 4K or better 120fps material would give us something our eyes would have trouble discerning from looking out a window.

If it is a fixed frequency technology then I'd vote for a 120Hz projector that would allow easy display of 24, 30, 60 or 120 fps without any nasty pull downs or ugly interpolations needed... as well as plenty of divisors to allow off standard funky frame rates that the project may call for (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 15, 20, 24, 30, 40, 60, 120). Compared to a 60Hz projector, you lose 8fps but gain 24, 40 and of course 120fps.

Of course there are many who would be more interested in 100Hz to avoid having to mung up 25 and 50fps.

Regardless of anything else, the projector needs the ability to interpret metadata that the cinematographer and director pass on to tell it how to display the material. I really don't want the technicians and the projector hardware overriding the creative decisions I've made.
 
All DLP/digital cinema projectors can do a multiple of 24fps > 24p-48p-72p-96p-(100/50) -120p(/60) -up to-144p, (for the time being).
This has nothing to do with frame interpolation, which is another (faking) process.

It would be sad if the film society should settle for the NTSC, based on electrical grid framerate 2x30/60Hz, as a new higher framerate standard in stead of using the multiple of 24fps, as that would easily have historical compatibility with all motion pictures made for the cinema.

With digital movie cameras and continuously faster and cheaper processing hardware and software, a doubling of the framerate standard for motion pictures to 48fps would give an comparatively higher increase in image quality than an increase in resolution would give, and could also easily be printed filmout/24fps.

The argument that it is 24fps that gives “the filmlook” compared to “videolook” I believe is a misconception based on that to few people has been able to or wanted to or afforded to do extensive tests with 24fps vs. 48fps.
Now when affordable digital movie cameras are available; I would hope some people are curious enough to shoot such tests and report back the difference.
Dual shot scenes shot at 48fps and 24fps, projected back at their respectively framerates should show a good deal of elimination of strobing and judder and a better sharper picture for the 48fps material vs. the 24fps without getting the “videolook”, as long as it’s graded and processed to retain its “filmlook”.


Anyway, digital projectors can eat it all, as long as one stick to the framerate standards, everything outside of that is a matter of software implementation in the projector.
 
I seem to remember a thread about this 6 months ago or so. Too lazy to dig 'er up though.

I think that 24fps when projected or shown on a 48hz or 72hz monitor looks fantastic. In fact to my eye it looks just as smooth as any 60p, if not more natural. Its all that 2:3 pulldown nonsense that makes 24p look juddery.
 
Craig Ryan said:
I think that 24fps when projected or shown on a 48hz or 72hz monitor looks fantastic. In fact to my eye it looks just as smooth as any 60p, if not more natural. Its all that 2:3 pulldown nonsense that makes 24p look juddery.
Click to expand...

I think they look pretty weird actually, and not just because of the smoothness. We have 100Hz and up monitors here in PAL land, and whenever I see those TVs in the shops showing Blu-Ray movies, I can't help but fell that everything looks slightly too fast and very unnatural - as if they were playing 24fps material at 30fps (very unlikely since our native frame rate is 25). Now, it could be that they just have the things set up wrong, and it's just 1fps faster, but it feels like a bigger difference than that - and it really ruins it for me...
 
Stephen Gentle said:
I think they look pretty weird actually, and not just because of the smoothness. We have 100Hz and up monitors here in PAL land, and whenever I see those TVs in the shops showing Blu-Ray movies, I can't help but fell that everything looks slightly too fast and very unnatural - as if they were playing 24fps material at 30fps (very unlikely since our native frame rate is 25). Now, it could be that they just have the things set up wrong, and it's just 1fps faster, but it feels like a bigger difference than that - and it really ruins it for me...
Click to expand...

What you are seeing is the new fad in TV's dispalying 24P footage at 120hz using frame interpolation, or in Pal land i'm guessing it's 25P footage at 100hz. Personally not a big fan of this either.
 
If bandwidth and storage aren't a problem and you like the look then yeah, 60 fps works, but I don't mind the look of 24 and it keeps my projects 2.5 times smaller than they would normally be. There's always a trade off.
 
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