What's your opinion about DSLR's with colorspace 4:2:0. Good enough for web work?

[Katie. A]

Hi,
Would like to know if DSLR's with 4:2:0 color space good enough for a professional web based work. Example sony A7s and Panasonic GH4.

 

[Brian Merlen]

back in the day 4:2:0 was good enough for high end work of any kind, but it kind of comes down to how good can you shoot it in the can on site and how close can you get it to the final realized look/colors. It won't be as robust as arri raw or r3d or 4k files, etc but if you can get the colors the way you want them in camera on location, or "close enough" i could see people being happy with it, but web based is very general term specific codec deliveries would be a more scientific way to approach this issue, aspect ratio with pixel count, frame rates, codecs, that kind of stuff would provide a better understanding of the scope of said web content and what you can scrape by with acquisition wise. I hear lots of good things about both those models, just keep in mind bare bones they aren't going to perform nearly as well as if you kit them out into more set friendly systems. by the time you add all the bells and whistles you probably could of rented a professional solution anyway i would personally imagine, but to each their own. alexas and reds are pretty affordable rentals these days, but if your looking to buy to own def at least address the short comings of using prosumer tech and try and figure out the best ways to build them into better solutions when it comes to production workflows/pulling focus/matte boxes/lens choices and corresponding adaptors or solutions. there is generally a lot of bs you need to do to these things to get them kitted in the most efficient ways

 

[Katie. A]

Thanks Brian!
Any good wide angle lens for Sony A7s?

 

[Marc Wielage]

A lot of them are still 8-bit and fall apart when you have to do any kind of extreme color-correction in order to save an overexposed shot or compensate for an underexposed shot. You need more bits. I know software exists to "interpolate" 10-bits out of 8-bit material, but I'm not convinced this kind of cheating will work.

I don't think it's a good philosophy to work on getting it good on the set and "in the can." To me, it's all about giving the post department something reasonable to work with on down the line. Even if you just slap a LUT on it at the end and call it a day, there will be a time when you need to do an overall tweak that could make the difference between a usable shot and an ugly shot.

 

[Brian Merlen]

since its sony e mount not much lens choice in general without using adaptors.. i own the 16mm prime and 18-55 zoom sony sells, they are basically plastic dslr lenses with all their various mechanical flaws as well as inaccurate marks.. they don't come cine moded either, so if you need to do follow focus work you gotta add gears to them and even then it will pull like low end DSLR glass and be a nightmare for your ACs. the zoom doesn't hold its f stop either, it loses light as you zoom...so very bad to use for cine work in general...

i know carl zeiss was making some stuff for e mount as well as rokinon/bower maybe those would be better options then sony glass? but if you can get a way to hook up PL that would be a lot better performance wise should you need to pull and keep subjects in focus all the time... also id look into if you can get better color space options with an off board recorder no matter what dslr you go with..some put out a more robust signal with hdmi or hdsdi then they can capture internally. these are some of the steps necessary to help make DSLRs more production friendly...you also need to address the form factor issues, adding matte boxes to the cams, audio, lots of rigging to make DSLRs more production friendly in general, so be sure to look into the many pieces it will take and factor that all in. you may find you can rent a sony f3 or ex1 or ex3 or something that will do the job and has less hurdles to overcome for essentially the same price... i think this is why people like the amira and cameras designed form factor wise so much, not a big hassle to kit them right... vs with red and dslrs a criticism i often hear is figuring out how to kit them out. i kind of like red since its such a malleable platform, but dslrs have significantly more shortcomings tech spec wise, port wise, lens mount wise, and on and on...


PS I just saw it can do 422 out HDMI or quad HD...most DSLRs are like that, better signals with off board recorders...I would highly recommend that route if you need to settle for DSLRs at all

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Hi,
Would like to know if DSLR's with 4:2:0 color space good enough for a professional web based work. Example sony A7s and Panasonic GH4.

You are referring to color sampling.
Color spaces are RGB, XYZ, LAB, LUV, YUV, xvYCC, etc.

You may perceive 4:2:0 as lower "color resolution" within a frame.
It is recommendable to utilize 4:2:2 if cameras allow it, which they do over external recorder.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

It depends on what you're using it for. We do a lot of "Web work" but we're expected to deliver 1080p deliverables ready for web and TV broadcast when we do. It costs the client a little bit more but they've on numerous occasions come back and said "we're really happy with the PreRoll campaign and we want to take it to TV." At that point if you shot everything on a DSLR you're screwed.

Also just because it's destined for web doesn't mean you don't need resolution and color detail for keying or FX. And even in H264s I've had clients ask why the DSLR footage someone shot was so soft.

 

[Mike P.]

You'll be fine.

In my experience, as long as you transcode to a "bigger bucket" codec (like prores) before editing/colour correction/grading, it'll work a treat!

Plus, how many videos have you seen on the web where they intercut REDs, Alexas, DSLRs, and even GoPros, etc etc, and picking out the low-end cameras is actually somewhat difficult. Like this, done by a follow REDuser -- https://vimeo.com/79559417

 

[Marc Wielage]

In my experience, as long as you transcode to a "bigger bucket" codec (like prores) before editing/colour correction/grading, it'll work a treat!

I've seen those treats fall apart very quickly, particularly when you can detect color banding in broad areas like skies.

I think for brief shots, GoPros, 5Ds, even 7Ds can work fine. Entire features have been shot on them and they can work to a point. And it is possible to bandage up the footage with defocus and other tricks to try to minimize the damage.

But I'd much rather have at least a 4:2:2 10-bit HD camera if possible. Those are only about $4K these days, not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things.