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Whats wrong with red pro primes?

U

utku sonmezer

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i know a lot of dops out there who think that red pro primes are really bad lenses. I know that RPPs are kinda too sharp(dont know why this is considered as a problem) and the flares look terrible. But other than these reasons i mean technically whats wrong with these lenses? Why would you prefer zeiss ultra primes instead of red pro primes?
 
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The lenses are beautiful...the only negative is size and weight. They are huge.

There is no reason to claim they are "bad lenses" other than ignorance.
 
They are very very heavy and bulky. In a climate where shooting became "chop chop quick quick" which in a way Red contribute too, this kind of housing don't fit in
Very heavy especially the 25mm and 35mm
The focus marks are not detailed enough and the iris marks are not consistent but I have seen mistakes with marking on the Optimo 17-80 too.
Other than that I think their optics is quite a good value for their money.
I would guess their optics is Minolta.
 
Utku, I ask myself the same question all the time.

RPPs are great lenses that are big and heavy, but there size is not the issue. Here in Turkey, a lot of DOPs coming from a film background (not all, but many) are resistant to the digital revolution that is taking place right now. Red was obviously the catalyst and the arguably the leader in this revolution, so anything with their name on it will be resisted by many DOPs for that sole reason. Even if they have come around to digital cinema, they usually gravitate to what they know... Arri (Alexa). The problem does seem to be worse in smaller markets like Turkey's. The few big rental houses are more resistant to change also, because that means spending money. They were doing just fine with their Arri film cameras they purchased 10 years ago, until Red came to town. Its natural to have resistance, but it is also temporary. Things will change. People will forget. Some day RPPs will be measured for their performance and nothing else. Everyone will eventually see what we all see... a great set of lenses :)

A man can dream, can't he?
 
Red Pro Primes are very fine lenses, and a fantastic value.

They are large and a bit heavy, but they are pretty fast and very budget friendly.

Any DP who says a lens is too sharp makes me raise an eyebrow.

First off filtration ... Schneider and Tiffen have great businesses making these beautiful pieces of glass that let you modify the character of light entering the lens, including softening it in interesting ways.

Also ... the Master Primes are definitely sharper than the RPP's. Cooke's, which are reknowned for the organic quality of the image they produce, also produce very sharp images. You want your lenses sharp.

I recently shot a feature (on a 7D unhappily) that was ideally suited for an Red One MX with a Cooke Varotal zoom and some really old fast primes, like Zeiss MK1's ... but that is an exception not the rule. Most days I want fast modern primes that are tack sharp.

Flares ... you know I've never flared an RPP - or any Red lens - so I can't say. Not ascribing the Red lenses superpowers, I've just never put them in a situation where they might flare without flagging them.

They are good lenses. The only thing that keeps me from recommending them without reservation is the markings, which are not so accurate.

Of course ... if that is an issue in your work you should look into having Duclos re-collimate and remark them. Ketch was telling me that he had some of his RPP's adjusted by Duclos and that they are superb now.
 
coming for using a optima 24-290 the RPP seem fine to me as far a weight. the color profile and the sharpness is amazing. i have no complaints and for 20k new you cant find a better set of glass
 
Ask yourself: what are your alternatives...

The rpp are great. Not only for their money as to image charracteristica.

The wide ones are very heavy, though. Heaviest primes I have ever used.

If I had to choose between RPPs and supers, I'd be a bit in a difficult corner.

Weight vs light.

Sharp vs nice diffusion.

Unprecise markings on both...

Probably would take the supers, selling them and buy RPPs and an old set of rehoused speed-panchros... :))
 
thx for sharing all the info and experiences. I was thinking exactly like you guys I guess the name red horrifies some people for some reasons.
 
the RPP are quite amazing especially for the price, weight and size does not bother me, as for markings, just put some tape around the barrel and remark as you like, also on the focus rings, mark with indelible ink all the distances (ring per lens) what is the problem.
 
Even so I have my own private set of Master Primes, for my personal use, on al my projects, I do LOVE RED's RPP's as they are not only extremely Sharp, but also produce a beautiful Blur "Bokeh"

Large? Yes, MP's are wider, just that the RPP's have not all the same sizes, so some are longer, no biggy.

Heavy? Yes, but so are the Cookes and Master Primes.

Focus markings not always accurate? Yes, but so are some other lenses form other big manufacturers, of course not Master Primes, but then again,
if I was to pay over 20k per lens and then find out that the Markings were not spot on... Well I would not take it very well.

But when you pay 1/5th the price for an Excellent set of CINEMA Prime Lenses, I do pay with pleasure a small fee to have the Focus Markings taken care of, and DUCLOS did such a fantastic job on our Set,
that really did not fill good at all when I had to sale it, as I moved back to Home in Italy were its Metric land.

Have I felt resistance while in LA to use RPP's on some sets? Yes, of course as did others.

Did I take their S^%#$? Of course not, I am a Director and a DoP my self, so I take S^%$# form no one that tells me a certain glass is not good when I say it is!!

What it is, is that some people think are too them good to work with RED lenses because they are 1/5th the price of Master Primes, and or are Against RED,
so they resist, and on some sets were they have no choice, but I still go to this sets today in Europe and other Countries were the first thing they wish to do is place
a Guffer Tape over the "RED" on our EPIC M... NO, NO, NO...

You are not putting anything over that name buddy, this is our Camera.

Bottom line? RED PRO PRIMES are great glass!!
 
I think they're great. Looks great, definitely superb value for money. I think RPPs get an undeserved bad rep due to the price maybe? I suppose for many, affordability = compromise in quality. I mean compared to Zeiss, Cooke, Pana Primos, etc that'll always be the case for some. What I really wanna know is who makes these lenses? I'm sure Red initially subcontracted the production to an established lens manufacturer? Sigma maybe or Cooke?

Red zooms on the other hand...hehe. Let's just say I prefer the Angenieuxs.
 
RPP's are sick...

They are heavy and bulky but they are super sharp and have many great visual qualities - my fav is the precision of the 18mm!

I used it a lot on this piece (esp w the 2k crop with high speed on the M and MX)

http://vimeo.com/21536443

I love super speeds for their size and 1.3 vs 1.8 from the RPP's - but for the money and the sharpness it's hard to beat the RPP's
 
I owned a set of RPPs but sold them because I couldn't make back the investment by renting them out; basically nobody wanted to rent them. Even low-budget productions would rather shoot with old Zeiss T2.1, 25 year old Cooke zooms or Lomos instead. So if you're looking to buy a set of lenses and need to get your investment back rather quickly then you shouldn't buy the RPPs. On the other hand - if you primarily use the lenses yourself or have a great network of people looking to rent them then go ahead. Sure - they are huge and heavy, but that's not really the problem. IMHO the real problem with these lenses is the lack of serviceability (nobody locally wanted to service mine because they couldn't get spare-parts or schematics) and the fact that almost no ACs know them well. I've heard quite a few ACs complaining about the marks being oddly distributed across the barrel and also that quite a few of the lenses are "off" in terms of focus/marks. Can't say about the last part, because mine were spot on throughout the set and never came out of focus once. The DPs that have shot with mine have been very pleased with them and I've really enjoyed shooting with them myself. Some of them do have rather odd "rainbow" flares caused by internal parts being insufficiently "blackened". I've been told this is something that can be fixed by a lens tech. I had planned to bring this up with RED support but just didn't have the time to document the problem in a thorough manner before I sold them.

But in terms of price/performance the RED PRO Primes are - hands down - the best overall purchase.
 
I took delivery of one of the very first RPP sets (other than the few mis-labeled T1.9 sets) and have been using them ever since. Tony brings up a valid point, I had a tough time putting them to work with clients in the beginning. People just did not want to use them. I think the overly-exagerated bad reputation of the RED 18-50 zoom hurt the RPP's a bit. That and too many people just assume there is something wrong with them because they're not ARRI/Zeiss, Cooke or Leica.

They're excellent lenses, especially for the price. Consistent performance, very sharp, great color rendition and contrast. Some people feel that they need more markings... OK, so what lens doesn't? But there are solutions for this, if it's that big of a deal to you. I personally don't have any difficulty with the markings on them after getting used to them. When pulling focus I'm always making my own marks on the lens and/or FF wheel, regardless of how many witness marks may be on that lens to start with.

In over two years of owning the RPP's, I feel that the only thing "wrong" with them, other than the bulk and weight of the 18, 25 and 35, is that so many people out there just assume that something is wrong with them.

And yes, I own and use all of them; 18, 25, 35, 50, 85, 100 and 300.
 
Nothing wrong with them at all! I have managed to show to a lot of really good DoP´s how terrific the RPPs can be, and I find that more and more people want my RPPs with my cameras, they are actually getting quite HOT around my clients! Actually I am going to need a second set pretty soon.

I absolutely love the lenses, super sharp, great value. I used to think some of them were not flaring nicely, but that seems to be the back side of the OLPF on the camera itself (you know those red circles?)
 
I have to say that the only thing wrong with mine is the extra 80 grand I have in my bank account. They are just as sharp and look just as good as lenses in the 100 grand a set range. I have never had a complaint on any national spot or viral piece. Amazing glass. Amazing price. What's wrong with that?
 
The very best lens that you can buy in that price range.
 
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