What's the future of Red post?

[Ralph Wong]

Well you are wrong in that assumption.

What exactly is it that you are waiting on? (just interested)

Well, if you guys are concentrating on the post side, that's good to know. One of the things I hear from post supervisors is the worry of how long it takes to transcode RED footage to a workable format. For people with all the time in the world, it's no big deal. However, we run on pretty tight schedules. Dailies need to be ready over night. Hearing other people on this forum talk about how RED Rushes crashing a lot does not help.

If there was a detailed manual showing the different ways that RED can be used in post production (especially with AVID), I think it would go a long way towards assuaging the fears of most associate producers and post supers. True, you can piece together things here and there on this forum, but most people do not have the time or energy. One thing I have found in this industry is that many people are resistant to change. If something works for them, they want to keep using the tried and true method rather than going for new technology. That is until the new technology becomes accepted enough to calm their fears of "upgrading". I've been burned a few times by companies who promise better workflows only to be pulling my hair out trying to get it to work. I learned how to use AVID by reading through the 300 page manual. It was difficult, but the explanations were very good and easy to understand. I really do believe that something like this from RED would do a world of difference in making this format more accepted.

 

[Shane Betts]

What exactly is it that you are waiting on? (just interested)

Manuals.

 

[Ralph Wong]

Manuals.

What she said.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

In addition to continuing updates to REDcine, REDAlert, REDline, REDrushes, QT codec, L&T plugin, there will soon be the Adobe plugin, new Apple Color workflow, Windows REDline, Linux REDline, Linux SDK, plus a number of other solutions from third parties that are under progress.

The SDK is also opening up support in many other applications and new applications.

Deanan THIS is my november 13th anouncement!!!!:w00t:

THANKS for that. Hope it won't take 12 month though!:waaa:

What exactly is it that you are waiting on? (just interested)

WHAT Deanan Said!!!! :sarcasm:

Patrick

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Well you are wrong in that assumption.

What exactly is it that you are waiting on? (just interested)

will the upcoming post stuff have the same access to the raw file like scratch rc and ra?
if yes--cool....best announcement
if no--how long will it take?

thanks

 

[Kevin Wild]

Well you are wrong in that assumption.

What exactly is it that you are waiting on? (just interested)

Stuart, here is one example that we really needed help on and could not find ANY solution for:

For a large fundraising project for a private school, we shot about 25 30min interviews and a ton of b-roll. So...a natural workflow on this would be to do a stringup to get the footage down to under an hour of usable clips...then CINE that hour. Well...no solution worked for this and we tried everything, I think.

-Crimson wouldn't work because of some clip size limitation
-Cine doesn't support audio for mac

So, we moved to doing all the clips in Red Rushes, since RED Alert cannot batch. Well, RED Rushes would crash on us ALL the time. I don't think it made it through the night one time without us coming into a frozen mac. (This was a brand new Intel...very clean...8 gigs RAM.)

So...this is what I'm waiting for. A simple, easy XML cutlist from FCP that can be brought seamlessly into RED Cine (or Color!)...we can color correct on RAW files...and then export the files back to Final Cut Pro.

I hope my wishes are all delivered with Color's support of the native R3D files. Not sure. I would be happy if RED Cine did this, too.

That's it for now...thanks for asking! I do have faith you guys will get to this...

Kevin

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Stuart, here is one example that we really needed help on and could not find ANY solution for:

For a large fundraising project for a private school, we shot about 25 30min interviews and a ton of b-roll. So...a natural workflow on this would be to do a stringup to get the footage down to under an hour of usable clips...then CINE that hour. Well...no solution worked for this and we tried everything, I think.

-Crimson wouldn't work because of some clip size limitation
-Cine doesn't support audio for mac

So, we moved to doing all the clips in Red Rushes, since RED Alert cannot batch. Well, RED Rushes would crash on us ALL the time. I don't think it made it through the night one time without us coming into a frozen mac. (This was a brand new Intel...very clean...8 gigs RAM.)

So...this is what I'm waiting for. A simple, easy XML cutlist from FCP that can be brought seamlessly into RED Cine (or Color!)...we can color correct on RAW files...and then export the files back to Final Cut Pro.

I hope my wishes are all delivered with Color's support of the native R3D files. Not sure. I would be happy if RED Cine did this, too.

That's it for now...thanks for asking! I do have faith you guys will get to this...

Kevin

redcine on pc? or
you could use scratch cine with an EDL
...oh its 17 500 usd...and like mr. most said...people should not expect to get things for free.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

you could use scratch cine with an EDL
...oh its 17 500 usd...and like mr. most said...people should not expect to get things for free.

But you should be able to choose your product/company if you have to pay.

:sarcasm:

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

But you should be able to choose your product/company if you have to pay.

:sarcasm:

hey there is this sdk...isnt everybody announcing r3d support?
so is it so much of a different how scratch will access the raw and the other companys?

:sarcasm:

 

[Sam Roberts]

What exactly is it that you are waiting on? (just interested)

Clearly written illustrated manuals. The REDCINE instruction movies make no sense unless you have a digital intermediate/colorist workflow background which a huge percentage of people here don't.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Clearly written illustrated manuals. The REDCINE instruction movies make no sense unless you have a digital intermediate/colorist workflow background which a huge percentage of people here don't.

you can always download the assimilate scratch manual...you`ll be happy for redcine

 

[Patrick Tresch]

hey there is this sdk...isnt everybody announcing r3d support?

Yes anouncing for a while... but there is still a big homework to do for a "competitive" SDK (competitive with Scratch of course) <- this is my own hypotetical speculation and opinion:usd:

Iridas announced 2 weeks ago they where beta testing their R3D support. I didn't get much detail on how the support worked (I didn't ask them:usd: ). If it was by transcoding R3D on import to DPX (like Qantel) or working natively with R3D until final render (as Scratch can do)?

But Deanan "announcement" gave me hope for better days.

Patrick


PS: I wonder if Apple liked RED to implement R3D support with Adobe (wich is also PC) ... ?

 

[Shane Betts]

What she said.

That she is a he. Boy, I really must get a haircut!

 

[Shane Betts]

Iridas announced 2 weeks ago they where beta testing their R3D support. I didn't get much detail on how the support worked (I didn't ask them:usd: ). If it was by transcoding R3D on import to DPX (like Qantel) or working natively with R3D until final render (as Scratch can do)?

My understanding is that they do access the R3D's direct but as RGB, not debayered RAW - I don't think Red have opened that functionality to anyone yet - except maybe Assimilate.

You know, when I read Luki's posts it seems to me that something must be untrue. Either they're not working with the RAW or they are getting special treatment... But that's probably off topic.:clown2:

 

[Ralph Wong]

That she is a he. Boy, I really must get a haircut!

Sorry, I thought bettsy was a girl. What he said.

 

[John Tissavary]

I still can't figure out why people think posting Red is so difficult.

If someone is trying to stuff Red, or Arri D21, or Phantom, or any other digital cine cam into a 35mm or F900 style workflow... yeah, it's different. But it's not 'hard', doesn't take forever, etc...

SIMPLE FACT:

I know several facilities in the SoCal (including mine) that have proven workflows for turning around dailies overnight. And I can finish Red originated footage in just about the same amount of time as from 35mm scans or digital video/HD.

The key to this is to go with people and facilities that have successfully posted Red - there are several in LA that are working with clients as we speak to put out feature films and television episodics originated on Red One.

The only valid excuse for not working with a Red camera is that one would rather work with a different camera, and naturally there's nothing wrong with that, but there's no need to blame it on post difficulties, because if that were the case there wouldn't be a flood of high, mid, and low end production posting Red at this time.

If you, or the shows you're involved with, would like more answers and less confusion about Red, please feel free to contact me privately: I'll be happy to elaborate on rock-solid workflows for television or feature film finishing.

regards,

John T.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

I still can't figure out why people think posting Red is so difficult.

If someone is trying to stuff Red, or Arri D21, or Phantom, or any other digital cine cam into a 35mm or F900 style workflow... yeah, it's different. But it's not 'hard', doesn't take forever, etc...

SIMPLE FACT:

I know several facilities in the SoCal (including mine) that have proven workflows for turning around dailies overnight. And I can finish Red originated footage in just about the same amount of time as from 35mm scans or digital video/HD.

The key to this is to go with people and facilities that have successfully posted Red - there are several in LA that are working with clients as we speak to put out feature films and television episodics originated on Red One.

The only valid excuse for not working with a Red camera is that one would rather work with a different camera, and naturally there's nothing wrong with that, but there's no need to blame it on post difficulties, because if that were the case there wouldn't be a flood of high, mid, and low end production posting Red at this time.

If you, or the shows you're involved with, would like more answers and less confusion about Red, please feel free to contact me privately: I'll be happy to elaborate on rock-solid workflows for television or feature film finishing.

regards,

John T.

Hey John, thank you...but i succesfully managed red projecs in the Ultra High End Market...where money doesnt really matter.

(Avid-Lustre, FCP-Da Vinci etc. choose a combination and i can say i did it dude)
All without Scratch.
I just want to have a CHOICE between Software developers.

Its just annoying not to have a smoother workflow like it could be.
Hey, the REDcode is out there in the wild for one year.
Hope other software developers will get real access like assimilate in the next 2-3 months...
Sorry, Redcine is a converter...but too unstable. dont believe me? check all the threads or convert 26 hrs of footage with it on different machines which have all the same hardware/software combination.

 

[Kevin Wild]

Lunacie...your post is insulting. Please list the solutions you have for the problems I already listed on earlier pages in this thread. I'll give you a dollar if you can come up with them.

There are bugs. Of course there are work-arounds. But in our case these were extremely lengthy.

So...just because you have some things working (short clips probably), does not mean we're inept at getting a workflow going.

Please be respectful. There are absolutely still bugs and issues with RED workflows. They are working on correcting them.


Oh, I won't give you a dollar if you say spend $25,000 more dollars for Scratch. Nope...that is not the solution I'm talking about.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Oh, I won't give you a dollar if you say spend $25,000 more dollars for Scratch. Nope...that is not the solution I'm talking about.

i know what you mean.
because as long as scratch is the only tool with edl support where you can see what you are doing-----for me a complete kit is red+scratch.
i succesfully avoided to buy it yet....workarounds

i earned more on the post side then with the cam itself....so business wise i should like the situation...but i hate wasting time with such things.

 

[Michael Brennan]

It is good news that R3D is being adopted by the major players.
My past experience with post guys from Apple Quantel Sony and Avid, shooting test material and following it through post is that they do not always point out basic flaws.
ie dropping from 10bit to 8bit and back to 10bit to perform a particular task.
They will say something like "10bit in - 10bit out".

Ask the obvious questions and don't assume that a particular standard/workflow will be maintained as described or explained.

Mike Brennan