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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

What we CAN do...NEW

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This all looks great, especially if the 2K scaled RAW does happen. The only thing I see missing (and I hate to complain) is I'm still hoping that 4K REDCODE RAW at 25-30fps can be recorded. Even if it won't work to CF, if it will do that to the RED DRIVE or RED RAM, that would be great.
 
kalone said:
My question, too.
I understand that the 25 fps speed will be between the "under development" features, right?
24 fps max @ 4K will be a nightmare for pal users like me.
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We will try to make 4K REDCODE RAW @ 25 fps to CF and RED Drive live as soon as possible. I should have said that in the original post.

Jim
 
kalone said:
24 fps max @ 4K will be a nightmare for pal users like me.
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Well, you can always speed up 4%.

If you're shooting for TV though, you may as well use the 2K scaled @ 25fps. Gives you the benefits of the full sensor area with a lower data rate and still at a (slightly) higher resoultion than your final deliverable will need to be (assuming 1080p).
 
Graeme Nattress said:
25fps should be in that list after, but not before, testing. Please don't think we're forgetting that most of the world is PAL. 25fps does take more data rate than 24fps, so I'm sure we're just being cautious over what will and will not fit on the compact flash card safely. Your concern about 25fps is noted.

Graeme
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thanks for not forgetting us PAL user
 
Jannard said:
4K REDCODE RAW @ 30 fps is still a planned spec and is in development. It will not ship with the 1st cameras.

HD-SDI 1080P will stay in the spec. It is working now and being used for monitoring on all features being shot on RED. If we decide to eliminate 1080P and/or 720P, it will be dropped as a record to CF or RED Drive option only. Our EVF will stay 720P.

Jim
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With that news I could see dropping RGB since I already have decks to record
to for those clients that need it.

Thank you sir.
 
Jannard said:
We will try to make 4K REDCODE RAW @ 25 fps to CF and RED Drive live as soon as possible. I should have said that in the original post.

Jim
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No worries if PAL users won't be neglected as 2nd market in your timeframe.


Cris
 
I'm sorry if this is a dumb question . . . . but isn't 4K RAW and 2K RGB the same thing? Since a square consisting of four RAW pixels actually consists of 1 red, 2 green, and 1 blue pixels, if you treat the four as one RGB pixel (perhaps taking the average value of the two green pixels), you end up with 2K RGB, right?

Or am I missing something?
 
roryhinds said:
4k 25fps and 30fps are really important
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hehe... EVERYTHING is important. We are working as fast as we can. Please keep in mind what we are doing from scratch in an impossible timeframe.

Jim
 
Whew. Go away for a bit and the whole camera is under revision :)

Speaking as someone who wanted to buy this cam (and still will regardless of RED's decision) partly for the 1080p RGB option...

There are specific projects that 1080p RGB is better suited for, like ones where the producers don't want RAW footage. You may ask why, but there are projects that are better suited for it. And even though there may be transcoding required that is a far cry from a complete RAW demosaic, scale, LUT, wb etc,. Then you have the sissue of single cameraman shooting. Focus will be easier with 1080p RGB, especially for sports event shooting etc... Alot of the people here advocating for no 1080p may not be aware of the focus issue with regards to perceived DOF.

And then we have the great NLE debate. IMO, Avid will never let full scale editing in 2K/4K with full scale previewing to a grading projector/monitor happen - however, true 1080p seems to be around the corner. Maybe i'm an optimistic pratt but i had hoped to edit direct 1080p redcode in Avid. No transcoding, no processing the footage. And that brings us to the last question and most important - What other format/resolution allows you from the set previews too the home studio set up to see pixel for pixel (monitor -projector) your focus, color profiles, artifacting, etc... to be 100% sure that you have the best pic you can? Answer :1080p You can tell me all about themagic focus assist but as my most recent Cinematographer told me (paraphrasing) alot of these dudes are going to be surprised if or when their films are projected at 2K/4K. Affordable projectors at 2K/4K are a ways off, so unless you don't care about going to the marquee or don't care if the potential of the aforementioned that good on ya. I, for one, prefer to have the option to guarantee the modularity RED has so long of spoken about.

That's my 3 pence. And i won't say anything about it again...I think it's a mistake to forgo 1080p and a more cynical man would say that it's too hard for them to accomplish...Hope that didn't come off as too harsh, but the cam (although aheadof it's time) should still serve as a tool until the industry adopts the 4K RAW workflow.
 
Yes, 2K scaled is great news !

It's cool to be able to shoot at 60fps using the full sensor.

But this feature is also interesting if you are working on a project that doesn't require 4K, this way you can dramatically reduce the datarate. The difference between 27 MB/s @4K and 7 MB/s at 2K is huge !
This is even much less than DVCPRO-HD (which is about 12 MB/s) !!
Awesome !
 
Graeme, is the scaled RAW option true?

Someone wake him up. Pour some REDbull on him. :)
 
Mucho mahalo Jim !
-A
 
I'm sorta awake.....

Scaled RAW is R&D. There's some "things" we can do, but I'd prefer not to discuss further until we've had the chance to do proper testing in hardware.

Graeme
 
Slinnn said:
But this feature is also interesting if you are working on a project that doesn't require 4K, this way you can dramatically reduce the datarate. The difference between 27 MB/s @4K and 7 MB/s at 2K is huge !
This is even much less than DVCPRO-HD (which is about 12 MB/s) !!
Awesome !
Click to expand...

I hope this can happen. 2K @ 24fps from the full sensor, scaled RAW, would allow for about 17 minutes record time on a single 8GB CF card vs the ~5min with 4K 24fps. Definitely some advantages there if the project doesn't need the full resolution.
 
4K REDCODE RAW @ 1-24 fps to Compact Flash or RED Drive,

In europe we shoot a lot on 25 fps because of sound/editing/dvd's/50 hz
Could you manage up to a 25 fps. for compact Flash and Red Drive??

thanks Robert
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
I hope this can happen. 2K @ 24fps from the full sensor, scaled RAW, would allow for about 17 minutes record time on a single 8GB CF card vs the ~5min with 4K 24fps. Definitely some advantages there if the project doesn't need the full resolution.
Click to expand...

This is amazing!

Jim,

As I said in anothe thread.. I don't think the real question for us is really resolution.. I'd be hard pressed to find someone that does NOT want it... The real trick here is time.

How much time are we looking at transcoding a 1min 2k scaled file to a codec our client's can edit, vs. a 720 or 1080p file that needs transcoding from RGB to a codec our clients can edit.

If the time difference is not that major, then this decision is a no-brainer.

Jay

We can already have any resolution we want via REDCine. So the real question is "how much longer will it take?"
 
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