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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

What´s wrong with the shutter in here?

You just caught the bad pan rate. You have to avoid certain pan rates- you will just need to accommodate. I don't think it has anything to do with the shutter at all though I'd try some pan tests with different shutter speeds try 1/60 or something higher- this will get rid of the "stuttering" but will then give you a "ramped" go-motion-like look that you may not want.

I get this effect all the time on my JVC GYHD110u when I'm filming at 24p- there are just certain pan rates that effect the human eye's ability to process that information when playing 24pfs. You see it in big movies all the time- especially when film projector's aren't calibrated correctly.

10 Things I Hate About You has it in one or two of its wide pan-crane shots. I remember that specifically because that's the first movie I saw that the stutter popped out at me. I then annoyed my girlfriend about it after the movie. I was so upset by that.
 
it's so normal.
once the client asked me to convert a pan in a 25fps progressive commercial into a 2x speed interlaced to eliminate pan strobing.
i got so upset i nearly beat him in the head ... more wisely i made what he requested to show him how bad it feels to have only one interlaced shot in a progressive program ... in front of the horrible feeling, he understood that sometimes pan stuttering is inevitable, anyway better than a lone interlaced shot :tongue:
 
Well it's avoidable- you just have to be paying close attention while shooting. It's usually the slower pans that do it. Make or break. Go faster or go slower. For me it ends up being that if it's strobing it's not the right pan speed I want anyway and a few degrees faster pan won't hurt...
 
I don't think it's normal. Something went wrong and it was not the pan speed. Are you watching the same clip?!...
 
I saw the same effect from a Genesis. I was sitting with a group of pretty high powered DOPs and Cameramen (Lord of the Rings/Narnia etc.) and saw the mast of a ship totally break up during a pan like that. I questioned it but everyone in the room said it looked great and there wasn't a problem.

So it's not just RED, and certainly not universally seen as an issue (though I think it is...)

Jim
 
Simply,

just don't pan so fast with a camera that using

THE ELECTRONIC ROLLING SHUTTER.

Test your panning speed before and manage your shooting

technique to get the panning speed correct for

your customer that he/she could tolerate and accept.


Also must see test pictures and video at:

Rolling Shutter Distortion Correction
 
It's not just CMOS cameras. JVC is a CCD camera and film cameras do it too. Just practice the pan.
 
I think the standard figure quoted is that to pan a full width of a theater shot, the pan must be slower than 7 seconds (I believe)
 
Joofa said:
I think the standard figure quoted is that to pan a full width of a theater shot, the pan must be slower than 7 seconds (I believe)
Click to expand...

Yes this is standard rule of thumb. What is seen as a problem here would be a problem for any camera film, SD, HD or red! Teaching people not to pan so fast is taught in film school basics 101.
 
Yep, the problem is in the panning. When you just pan without following a subject the strobing becomes quite obvious since nothing distracts the viewer from the strobing motion. Deep depth of field worsens the effect, because the strobing motion is evident all over the frame. Very wide angle lenses can be helpful when panning at 24fps without following a subject's motion and deep depth of field, because everything moves slower the closer it is to the center of the frame, which becomes the center of attention. :)
 
Joofa said:
I think the standard figure quoted is that to pan a full width of a theater shot, the pan must be slower than 7 seconds (I believe)
Click to expand...

yes, when not following a moving object, any still object should take a minimum of 7 secs to get from one side of the frame to the other. standard rule for film or video. it was the second of two basic rules taught at film school - the other being the 30 degree rule (minimum angle between cuts).
 
I don´t know if you guys are taking me as stupid.
There is a problem there. And in other footage too.
With RED there is a strobe fx when brights areas move fast.
At first we thought the issue was caused because of fast pans and progressive.
We put together several tests and other cameras. The RED was the only one displaying the problem.

This strobe fx can also be seen when a subject moves fast against a bright background even when the camera is static.

I´ve contacted RED with no response.
 
I've noticed that the response time of your computer LCD affects how something like your tests look in motion. Faster response results in less strobing in the contrast areas - 30" cinema display looks way better than the slower response time of an old Dell 2405.

Anyway, I see what you mean when playing back, but when stepping thru frame by frame, I don't see anything out of the ordinary.

Can you post the results of the other cameras?
 
Please,

let us see your tests with RED and also other

cameras that we could compare it here in public.
 
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