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What Replaces the 11 series Panny

T

Troy Smith

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I'm wondering if anyone knows what would be the best panny plasma to get now
since the 11 series has been discontinued. Obviously with Sdi inputs.

Thanks
Troy Smit
 
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...F20U_Full_HD_Professional_Plasma_Display.html

Mine just arrived yesterday (about $1,000 for the 42-inch), so still no details on it yet, but the impression I've gotten is that, even though this model is Panasonic's follow-up to the 11 series, some have expressed doubts that it is as good. Maybe the true successor is the BT-LH2550 ($4,000), even though it is an LCD, not a plasma, and not nearly as large, but it is targeted by Panasonic at "broadcast and professional applications" and has superior color space, waveform, and standard HD-SDI, among other things.

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webap...d=325746&catGroupId=14625&surfModel=BT-LH2550

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...T_LH2550PJ_BT_LH2550_26_Widescreen_HD_SD.html

There are a few RedUser threads that discuss the topic, so search is your friend. In the B&H overview description of the plasma, the base model is described as "perfect for digital signage applications," which hardly inspires confidence, and that the Slot 2.0 architecture opens its use to "support a variety of applications." If it is targeted at the post-production crowd, Panasonic certainly isn't trumpeting this to its market. But, as a one-man owner/operator shooter, I'm not interested in moving up to the next level, which is more expensive and perhaps only provides marginal benefit, depending on your needs, of course. HD-SDI is available as an add-on ($1,500 - $2,500).

In any event, the plasma might be better regarded as a good client view monitor or indicative of what your material will look like on-air, rather than a critical color-correction/editing monitor.
 
Panasonic is actually pushing the Viera VT-series to the post industry for more than a year now. Yes, these are consumer/prosumer displays, but they're also the cutting-edge panels and have the most connectivity options and features out of the box. The only thing they lack is SDI input, however most people drive plasmas these days with HDMI and there are excellent converters for HD-SDI to HDMI from AJA, BMD and Gefen.

The PF20 series of panels are based on the 13th generation NeoPDP (plasma display panel), which is last year's panel. This panel was also used in the VT25 Viera displays. Panasonic finally gave us 10bit support via HDMI with the PF20U models, however they still crippled HDMI on the "pro" monitors by not allowing 24fps and other frame rates. There is also no support for 3D. If you want 24fps or other features not on the base panel, you must buy the necessary input board(s) in the new Slot-2.0 form. The HD-SDI interface board is $2499 MSRP. Ouch.

Current Viera models for 2011 are the VT30 series for North America. Full HDMI 1.4 support for 10bit and 12bit input, 3D, proper 24fps display... That's the direction I would go.

I personally have the 50" VT25 that I bought about 14 months ago. It's great. I feed it both HDMI and HD-SDI [via an AJA Hi5-3G converter]. I paid about $2900 for the monitor, AJA converter and wall mount when I bought it. Takes some time and a bit of effort to get it dialed in just right, but it's been the best plasma I've ever owned. Blacks are almost as good as the legendary last-generation Kuros, but overall color and bleed control is far superior. The 2011 models supposedly have slightly better blacks for a bit more contrast and some other improved controls. They're also cheaper.

Panasonic doesn't offer this year's 14th generation PDP in a 42" size at this time, only 50" thru 65" and they only offered the 13th generation in a 42" by way of the PF20U pro model. ...In other words; buy the 50" it's great. I personally wish I would've waited another month for the 54" to hit the market and I would've bought that. Oh well... Next time.
 
Thanks Bill and Jeff.

I think the Vt30 with Aja convertor box sounds like the go.

THanks

Troy Smith
 
Hi Troy,
Dunno if you have heard but Panasonic has come out with the PF 30... a major feature is 3D. Apparently it was just announced a week ago in the finance rags. In Malaysia, the re-sellers are already taking orders BUT.... the monitor won't get here till October... So don't really know what is the delivery date on your end....
Tried getting more info off the Panasonic website but ziltch....
 
I really feel lucky that I bought 65inch Series 12. It is already discontinued. We will be testing Dolby Master Display soon so I will let you know how it is.
 
Kaku, how soon is soon for the Dolby test? Lim

Kaku Ito said:
I really feel lucky that I bought 65inch Series 12. It is already discontinued. We will be testing Dolby Master Display soon so I will let you know how it is.
Click to expand...
 
Hello Lim,

I think sometime next week.
 
Thanks for the state of the union Jeff.

I was trying to find the new slot 2.0 dual HD-SDI board for exact pricing but I can't seem to find it anywhere. Do you know who carries it?
 
Off the top of my head, I don't know who carries it. Anyone who sells the PF20 series displays should able to quote you a price. MSRP is $2499 on the Slot-2.0 HD-SDI board. IMO, it's not worth it. Even if you can buy one at a 20% discount, you can still pick up a 50" VT30 display with AJA Hi-5 3D converter for about the same price.

The old generation PF12 displays are a great buy if you can find them. Panny never released a PF12 series model for either the 42" or 50" size, they skipped those sizes and went right to the PF20. Down side to owning a PF12 is that the HDMI is still only 8bit and the panel is 2 generations behind the current. But they're still a good monitor and one of the most cost-effective ways to get a 58" display with an SDI option installed. The old-style SDI board can be picked up used for under $1K on ebay if you look around. Same for the TH-58PF12 display. Under $1K if you look hard enough -- still under $2K from authorized dealers if you can find one that has them in stock and is willing to deal. Most are if you talk to the right people and point out that they're old tech...
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
I personally have the 50" VT25 that I bought about 14 months ago. It's great. I feed it both HDMI and HD-SDI [via an AJA Hi5-3G converter]. I paid about $2900 for the monitor, AJA converter and wall mount when I bought it. Takes some time and a bit of effort to get it dialed in just right, but it's been the best plasma I've ever owned. Blacks are almost as good as the legendary last-generation Kuros, but overall color and bleed control is far superior. The 2011 models supposedly have slightly better blacks for a bit more contrast and some other improved controls. They're also cheaper.
Click to expand...

Jeff,

Would this be a good choice?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/758170-REG/Panasonic_TC_P55VT30_TC_P55VT30_55_Class_VIERA.html
 
There's a new "pro series" Panasonic broadcast HD monitor, the TH42BT300, which appears to be one of the first that has all the features needed for a serious color-correction room. It's being demoed at the LA SMPTE meeting on October 20th at the Castaway Restaurant in Burbank at 8PM. Looks very promising. I missed this at NAB, but it's due out in just a few weeks.

Full specs here:

http://www.panasonic.com/business/plasma/th-42bt300u.asp
 
JP, the VT30 is a good choice. It is the current top end Viera series model and replaces the VT25 from last year. I'm still using my 50" VT25 -- nice plasma, very pleased. They are a bit tricky to calibrate, but once you get them dialed in, they're rather nice.

The PF30U series is this year's update to the PF20U series. I have not had a chance to see one yet, but they look as unimpressive as last year's models. Once again, the HDMI seems to be intentionally crippled and they really push the Slot-2.0 add-on board for SDI, which costs about the same as the monitor itself.

The new BT300U models look very intriguing. Spec-wise, they are more in-line with the Viera plasmas, but also have a studio calibration mode. It doesn't appear that the HDMI is crippled on the BT300U series -- after all, they're like the Viera and DON'T take the add-in interface boards. I'd like to check one out, but I'm not going to hunt one down just to see it. Happy with the one I have for now. My only regret over my 50" VT25 plasma is that I didn't buy the 54" for $120 more, but I wasn't able to wait the extra 60 days for it to ship. I plan to keep this VT25 for about another year, give or take... Then replace it with something Quad-HD / 4K.
 
I ran the monitor to "break it in" for about 200 hours. Just watched TV, worked on it, etc.. Let it settle for a while before wasting time trying to calibrate. Plasmas tend to do a lot of changing and shifting the first 100 hours or so.

Found that both my Spyder3 Elite and EyeOne Pro meters were not up to the task of calibrating the display. The Spyder3 is crap. The EyeOne is OK, but it's response is rather slow and it would give a lot of inconsistent readings, so I gave up. Called in an ISF AV guy I know -- he uses a Klein K-10 for all his calibrations, the better meter made all the difference. I have since bought a CalMan C6 from SpectraCal. It's cheaper than the EyeOne and much faster and consistent. It does a good job.

Other than that, on the VT25, I can pretty well nail REC-709, but there's not much to say about that specifically. Enable the Custom mode and tweak away. I turn on the enhanced black setting and dial the various RGB and other settings to bring it within spec. Small incremental adjustments needed to keep everything under control, but it doesn't take too long. I found the calibration drifted noticeably after about 90 days. But it took that long to get the tech with his probe back out. After the second calibration, the display hasn't drifted much at all. Now that I have my own kit, I'm checking it every 30 to 45 days. I've had the display for almost 18 months now and other than the first two calibrations, it's only needed a small tweak here and there. I'm not sure what else to say about the calibration, but I can't really quote numbers since they will differ from one panel and lighting environment to another. Use a good companion software that will help guide you. Typically you get the brightness, contrast and gamma right first and then tweak RGB levels. Make sure you use a good meter that is properly calibrated. In my experience, off the shelf meters like the Spyder, don't give consistent results from one meter to the next. For a while I owned two of them and one would consistently lead me to calibrating a warmer image than with the other. The SpectraCal solutions are reasonably priced. Cinespace is quite a bit better and more suited to what a lot of us here are doing. However, it's expensive and hard to justify for most small shops or independent types.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
I ran the monitor to "break it in" for about 200 hours. Just watched TV, worked on it, etc.. Let it settle for a while before wasting time trying to calibrate. Plasmas tend to do a lot of changing and shifting the first 100 hours or so.

Found that both my Spyder3 Elite and EyeOne Pro meters were not up to the task of calibrating the display. The Spyder3 is crap. The EyeOne is OK, but it's response is rather slow and it would give a lot of inconsistent readings, so I gave up. Called in an ISF AV guy I know -- he uses a Klein K-10 for all his calibrations, the better meter made all the difference. I have since bought a CalMan C6 from SpectraCal. It's cheaper than the EyeOne and much faster and consistent. It does a good job.

Other than that, on the VT25, I can pretty well nail REC-709, but there's not much to say about that specifically. Enable the Custom mode and tweak away. I turn on the enhanced black setting and dial the various RGB and other settings to bring it within spec. Small incremental adjustments needed to keep everything under control, but it doesn't take too long. I found the calibration drifted noticeably after about 90 days. But it took that long to get the tech with his probe back out. After the second calibration, the display hasn't drifted much at all. Now that I have my own kit, I'm checking it every 30 to 45 days. I've had the display for almost 18 months now and other than the first two calibrations, it's only needed a small tweak here and there. I'm not sure what else to say about the calibration, but I can't really quote numbers since they will differ from one panel and lighting environment to another. Use a good companion software that will help guide you. Typically you get the brightness, contrast and gamma right first and then tweak RGB levels. Make sure you use a good meter that is properly calibrated. In my experience, off the shelf meters like the Spyder, don't give consistent results from one meter to the next. For a while I owned two of them and one would consistently lead me to calibrating a warmer image than with the other. The SpectraCal solutions are reasonably priced. Cinespace is quite a bit better and more suited to what a lot of us here are doing. However, it's expensive and hard to justify for most small shops or independent types.
Click to expand...

Hi Jeff,

Which software from SpectraCal are you using with the C6: the CalMan DIY $199, CalMan Expert $1495, or CalMan Commercial $2495

Have any experience with the DIY software?
they now just released a new bundle of CalMan DIY w/ 1 Display Pro for $379 which seems pretty good,
but I'm not sure it works well across multiple displays types (plasma, LCD, OLED, projector, etc)

Thanks for any feedback!
 
JP Castel said:
Jeff,

Would this be a good choice?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/758170-REG/Panasonic_TC_P55VT30_TC_P55VT30_55_Class_VIERA.html
Click to expand...


I haven't used the VT30 yet, but have used the VT25 for grading stereo imagery, and it was excellent. I hear the VT30 is better, and has 'pro setttings' and ISFcc menu, which means you can really get in there and tweak for calibration.

Which brings me to the most important point of monitoring, IMHO: Calibration. These days calibration via probe is the best and most economical way to ensure 'standards' adherence and integrity.

Plasma screens, due to their display technology, can ONLY be calibrated via non-contact probes, which are considerably more expensive. For instance, an X-RITE i1 Display2 costs under $300. The least expensive (reliable) non-contact probe I know of is the x-rite Hubble, which can be had or somewhere south of $4000, but I HIGHLY recommend stepping up to the Klein K-10, which costs under $7000.

Sooooo... unless you're willing to either hire someone with a probe and the know-how to calibrate, or invest the right tool and do it yourself, I wouldn't recommend any consumer display for professional monitoring.

To put it into perspective, though, the VT30 will cost under $2500, add to that an SDI to HDMI converter if you need it (dual link from Blackmagic or Aja for under $1k), a Klein K-10 for @ $6500, and you're still coming out under $12k, @ half the cost of most existing 'professional grade' LCD monitors, which suffer from inferior blacks (not including Dolby PRM 4200) and poor viewing angles. And it does 3D, if you're into that sort of thing :)
 
Inside sources confirm that the upcoming Panasonic BT300 series monitors are going to be formidable for final color correction in HD:

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wc...1041022139&surfModel=Content03242011041022139

I'm not sure how durable they'd be on a day-in/day-out situation on a fast-moving set, but in a controllable environment, adjusted well, I expect they'll look very good.

I agree with John above that monitor calibration is everything. If you can't trust what you see, all bets are off.
 
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