What post apps can work with M-X footage (Scratch, Baselight, Pablo, etc.)?

[Chris Parker]

Other than REDCine-X, I am curious to know what other post software is working with the new M-X files from the new cameras. This thread would welcome comments from those in the know regarding timing of updates that will allow their user base to work natively with the new format. Wondering about:

- Scratch
- Baselight
- Pablo
- Lustre
- Apple Color
- RocketCine-X
- old Red Alert/Rushes??
- any others?

If those apps that can work now with RAW RED files suddenly can't, the timing to get them working will be integral to not disrupting currently established post paths for productions. It would be great if this thread were a place where these release updates were posted.

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Other than REDCine-X, I am curious to know what other post software is working with the new M-X files from the new cameras. This thread would welcome comments from those in the know regarding timing of updates that will allow their user base to work natively with the new format. Wondering about:

- Scratch
- Baselight
- Pablo
- Lustre
- Apple Color
- RocketCine-X
- old Red Alert/Rushes??
- any others?

If those apps that can work now with RAW RED files suddenly can't, the timing to get them working will be integral to not disrupting currently established post paths for productions. It would be great if this thread were a place where these release updates were posted.

Hey Chris,

We showed SCRATCH playing MX footage with the new FLUT science, with realtime decoding through RED Rocket at this past Saturday's RED Day.

I do not have a timing as to when it will be released. FLUT and the SDK for RR and our code are still being tweaked quite a bit. It would honestly be irresponsible for us to release it as it is now.

Lucas

ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

 

[Chris Parker]

as usual lucas, thanks for being so forthright. keep the info. coming as you know it please.....very useful to know from the horse's mouth.

 

[M Most]

Other than REDCine-X, I am curious to know what other post software is working with the new M-X files from the new cameras. This thread would welcome comments from those in the know regarding timing of updates that will allow their user base to work natively with the new format. Wondering about:

- Scratch
- Baselight
- Pablo
- Lustre
- Apple Color
- RocketCine-X
- old Red Alert/Rushes??
- any others?

If those apps that can work now with RAW RED files suddenly can't, the timing to get them working will be integral to not disrupting currently established post paths for productions. It would be great if this thread were a place where these release updates were posted.

Only Redcine-X can work with them currently. All SDK licensees will theoretically be able to once they integrate the new SDK, but for production use this involves more than just swapping out code, especially early release code. Assimilate has already shown a early version that can handle them. I have personally seen and used an "alpha" build of Baselight that uses the new SDK (this is not generally available, it was a special build done specifically for a facility I've been working with that is posting a Warner Bros. pilot that is using a M/X camera for some scenes). Moving to the new version, however, affects color settings on any older footage done with the old version, so some disruption is unavoidable.

 

[Neil W. Smith]

Apple Color and direct M-X .r3d grading...

Apple Color and direct M-X .r3d grading...

Other than REDCine-X, I am curious to know what other post software is working with the new M-X files from the new cameras. This thread would welcome comments from those in the know regarding timing of updates that will allow their user base to work natively with the new format. Wondering about:

Chris, we demonstrated Apple Color grading the new M-X RAW files directly on Saturday .... not sure when the RED Plug-in for Final Cut Studio will be generally available but rest assured when it is you'll be in for a pleasant surprise.

Grading the M-X .r3d files directly is amazing ... the extended Dynamic Range of the M-X sensor combined with Graeme's new FLUT color science in an Apple based imaging pipeline is going to provide an extremely cost-effective and powerful DI platform as we move forward with Epic and Scarlet .... no need for an expensive heavy-iron solution if you're prepared to wait for a little for rendering time .... and as soon as Apple incorporates RED Rocket™ into their architecture we going to have an awsome combination!

We'll be showing the new Red Apple M-X plugin in action tomorrow afternoon at the CML M-X follow-up event here on The Lot (half a mile away from Ren Mar studios) .... if you're a CML member pop in and check out the M-X footage and screenings .... sessions start at 2pm and run every half hour on the hour until 5 pm.

We'll also be showing a film-out we just completed with Efilm of some graded M-X shots .... looks bloody marvelous!

2010 has started out with a bang ... M-X plus Apple plus RED Rocket is a killer package ..... all you need is a highly talented colorist, a $100k projector and a DP who knows how to expose correctly and you'll have the best looking footage in town

Hope to see you tomorrow afternoon.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Dylan Macleod CSC]

So what are the current roadblocks - if any - to the post workflow with the MX sensor. I have a shoot coming up in March that wants to use it and I want to give them any advice I can.

What if they end up color correcting on, say a Pablo? Will they have to make DPX files, like the old days?

What about offline? Do proxies work in FCP?

Thanks.

 

[Chris Parker]

creating offline files for editorial is easy. they shouldn't cut with the proxies created by camera, but doing a transcode into their offline codec of choice is fine and easy.

grading is still the issue. seems like right now (i hope to be proved wrong in writing this ASAP) you do have to go back to the DPX frames for grading route. Problem here is if REDCine-X and RocketCine-X are the only apps able to take advantage of the new MX files, since they don't conform to EDLs or XMLs, this process is rendered difficult and not efficient for the time being.

DYING for support from all the Pablos, Lustres, Baselights, Scratches of the world. I know it's certainly nobody's fault, but this will be the breakthrough needed to put the new sensors in a VERY comfortable position for all productions and their preferred post pipelines.

 

[Brandon Kraemer]

creating offline files for editorial is easy. they shouldn't cut with the proxies created by camera, but doing a transcode into their offline codec of choice is fine and easy.

Is this specific to MX for some reason, or is this your general philosophy not to work with proxies?

grading is still the issue. seems like right now (i hope to be proved wrong in writing this ASAP) you do have to go back to the DPX frames for grading route. Problem here is if REDCine-X and RocketCine-X are the only apps able to take advantage of the new MX files, since they don't conform to EDLs or XMLs, this process is rendered difficult and not efficient for the time being.

There is an EDL function coming shortly in Redcine-X, previewed at the recent Red Day. Currently in the development build, beta release is soon to follow.

Some of us have been working with DPX transcodes in Camera RGB and RedLog Gamma Space as prep for grading, with very good results. Aside from more options with ISO (flut) in the transcode phase, I don't where MX footage couldn't be handled in this same way, with any issues... until MX support is available in your grading system of choice.

 

[Frank Cueto]

Guys, you missed NuCoda... Which has red rocket support as well.

Remember, one thing is being able to deal with r3d files (ala discreet which transcodes to a dpx intermediate file), its a very different thing to work with the NATIVE files.

 

[Dylan Macleod CSC]

Some of us have been working with DPX transcodes in Camera RGB and RedLog Gamma Space as prep for grading, with very good results. Aside from more options with ISO (FLUT™) in the transcode phase, I don't where MX footage couldn't be handled in this same way, with any issues... until MX support is available in your grading system of choice.

The issue would be the time and cost to do the DPX transcode versus working natively from R3D files - as some have become accustomed to.

DPX transcode may be an option - I just need to advise production in advance to see if their timeline and budget can accommodate.

 

[Frank Cueto]

I rather work from the native files, it allows us to process everything at 4K when the render time comes.

I believe there is an inherent advantage to having the r3d's on the system and not having to transcode everything to 4K, and then create 2K proxies for all of the footage for the session.

 

[Greg M]

Clipster now supports new Color Science and M-X footage.

 

[Brandon Kraemer]

I rather work from the native files, it allows us to process everything at 4K when the render time comes.

I believe there is an inherent advantage to having the r3d's on the system and not having to transcode everything to 4K, and then create 2K proxies for all of the footage for the session.

Absolutely... not to mention being able to hot-swap LUT's at any stage of the post-pipeline, being able to toggle debayer quality at different stages as well. Many platforms were able to do this already... it's just a matter of time before MX is supported too.

In the mean time... it is a time factor consideration for working with transcodes for grading and conforming.

 

[M Most]

I rather work from the native files, it allows us to process everything at 4K when the render time comes.

I believe there is an inherent advantage to having the r3d's on the system and not having to transcode everything to 4K, and then create 2K proxies for all of the footage for the session.

You also aren't truncating 2 bits from the 12 bit information in the original R3d file when you stay native. This can be more significant than you might think.

 

[Lucas Wilson]

DPX transcode may be an option - I just need to advise production in advance to see if their timeline and budget can accommodate.

Dylan,

You may want to check out the thread I just posted in the RED Rocket section titles "RED Rocket Breakthroughs."

SCRATCH now has (by far) the fastest playback and rendering engines for R3D via use of multiple Rocket cards in one system.

Lucas

 

[Adil Lahoulou]

This quote is from Michael Cioni of LightIron.

It looks like Pablo is set for MX...

"we did the MX grading directly from the R3D source files in 4K. I talked to someone else this morning that asked a similar question and I came across this post and just wanted to clarify that Pablo is MX aware and that is how the files were graded for the MX reel and the other jobs I do.
In fact, now with MX capabilities, we can import B21 footage in using the new color science and it performs much better"

 

[Chris Parker]

sounds like things are coming around quite fast in the post world. so far, we got:

1. Scratch
2. Clipster
3. Pablo
4. Apple Color (as of today)

Won't be long now for all to be on board exactly where they were with 'old' RED footage. Great news.....

 

[Nick Shaw]

FilmLight have a build in testing of Baselight with M-X and FLUT support. This has been released as a beta to some customers (including myself).

 

[Frank Cueto]

Now, if only filmlight would release it to the rest of us.
And we are also expecting that Linux sdk thing for da rocket.

 

[Rainer Fritz]

as our MX cams arrive (hopefully by end of next week) we want to do intensive testing, as we have three projects close to begin shooting. all of them will be graded on baselight 8. any thoughts we will get a release build for baselight 8 in the next two or three weeks?

thx
rainer