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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

What is the New Color Science?

Hi - any new news re when the Red Quicktime CODEC will be updated, and will it only be for Snow Leopard, or will Red continue supporting Leopard/FCP 6.x ?

Thanks,
Bryan
 
I understand Red has a lot on their plate right now. But as a Apple Color centric grading house that is seeing more and more Build 20 footage, we spend a lot of time trying to work around the New Color Science gamma shift in Color. When this first came around back in August, I never would have thought that this would still be an issue for Apple Color in November.

I can't be alone with this.

STeve
 
Steve MacMillan said:
I understand Red has a lot on their plate right now. But as a Apple Color centric grading house that is seeing more and more Build 20 footage, we spend a lot of time trying to work around the New Color Science gamma shift in Color. When this first came around back in August, I never would have thought that this would still be an issue for Apple Color in November.

I can't be alone with this.

STeve
Click to expand...
STeve, we are pretty much a FCS boutique and since we are using snow leopard we are happy about the gamma issue (the only thing that is very buggy for us with snow leopard is Motion, no big deal). During Reducation 001 Michael Cioni said the debayer capabilities of Redalert and Redcine were superior compared to Color debayer function and it would have been better to transcode the R3D files to other codec prior importing into Color. Also Color 1.5 still uses the old color science so if you want to use the new color science is better to adjust color settings in Redalert or Redcine. Except the prores proxy (that they have a gamma shift) using r3ds transcoded to 720p prores LT for offline editorial and to 2k prores 4 for online is giving us great results with no gamma problems.
 
RedAlert, RedCine, Color and the SDK all share exactly the same demosaic code.

Graeme
 
Michael Cioni said:
The biggest example of this is the output from Color. I know a lot of people are excited by this, including myself, but our results have shown that going back to R3Ds with Color and rendering 2K DPX frames yields poorer results than transcoding in RedRushes at half/high and grading the ProRes. You lose the Color room, but if you transcode dailies at half/high using RedLog, you will have a significant amount of dynamic range even in the ProRes to grade with.
Click to expand...
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=32700
I'm confused now...
 
Luca Immesi said:
STeve, we are pretty much a FCS boutique and since we are using snow leopard we are happy about the gamma issue (the only thing that is very buggy for us with snow leopard is Motion, no big deal). During Reducation 001 Michael Cioni said the debayer capabilities of Redalert and Redcine were superior compared to Color debayer function and it would have been better to transcode the R3D files to other codec prior importing into Color. Also Color 1.5 still uses the old color science so if you want to use the new color science is better to adjust color settings in Redalert or Redcine. Except the prores proxy (that they have a gamma shift) using r3ds transcoded to 720p prores LT for offline editorial and to 2k prores 4 for online is giving us great results with no gamma problems.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing that Michael Cioni was talking about the OLPF Compensation that Monkey Extract has control over. What we like about grading 12bit 444 4k R3D files directly is the latitude that we don't see in even 10bit uncompressed transcodes, especially in underexposed blacks. Also, who wants to wait for a high quality transcode. With build 20 files, the Gamma shift is extremely noticeable and impossible to completely neutralize. Our colorist are wizards at matching grades, and have not been able to come up with a universal pre-grade to fix the shift towards magenta. It seems to be content related, fix one scene and the next is different. Some of our clients point to this as another serious flaw or needless complication in the RED workflow.

It would be nice if the next RECODE plug-in for FCP and Color allowed for complete control over all transcode features, including all the debayer levels, OLPF, burn-in, etc. But don't let that slow down the most important need for New Color Science support in Color.
 
Hi Graeme, I see you're visiting this thread. :-)

So...again... :-) ...any new news re when the Red Quicktime CODEC will be updated, and will it only be for Snow Leopard, or will Red continue supporting Leopard/FCP 6.x ?

Thanks,
Bryan
 
No news. I'm sure we'll get an update when there's news to update us with.

Graeme
 
Jonathan: no, that codec is pretty old

A new QuickTime codec and Apple Color plugin will be available soon. The QT codec is currently in an alpha status, but working mostly. The Color plugin is a little bit further along but not done yet.

These will continue to work on Leopard with FCS3.
 
Rob Lohman said:
Jonathan: no, that codec is pretty old

A new QuickTime codec and Apple Color plugin will be available soon. The QT codec is currently in an alpha status, but working mostly. The Color plugin is a little bit further along but not done yet.

These will continue to work on Leopard with FCS3.
Click to expand...

Rob: What are the features of the new Color plug-in? RedRocket support? New colour science? Mysterium-X? When do you expect a release?
 
New color science (but no new controls like FLUT) and Mysterium-X support for the initial release. It will be out soon.
 
Are there any plans for a deeper "more native" R3D/SDK implementation in color and a RedRoom with all the controls from RA/RCX or is that an Apple issue?
 
Thanks Rob!

What about RedRocket support?
 
Rob Lohman said:
New color science (but no new controls like FLUT) and Mysterium-X support for the initial release. It will be out soon.
Click to expand...

By "New Color Science", are we talking about the slightly older "Graeme's magic" color science? Or the brand-spanking-new "RedColor/RedGamma" color science? 'Cuz I'd totally take back all my bitching and moaning about the plugin if we skipped a generation. Just sayin.

Also, when's soon? :) I know I'm not going to get a precises answer here, but maybe some hints? Should I go ahead and start transcoding my next project or can I hold out hope that the plugin will roll out?
 
I'd love to get my hands on a beta. Currently the Color plugin is crashing for us like crazy from the M proxies, we've been stuck waiting for a new plugin, but deadlines are fast approaching.
 
Ooh, I second the beta (Actually, wouldn't it be an Alpha?) request. :) And I *don't* have deadlines, so I promise not to come back and say "Your stupid software @##%^#^@##ed up my project.
 
Yes, an alpha would be fine, I just want to try something that doesn't crash and makes my workflow utterly useless (I sent the crashlogs to the team a while ago). Perhaps the new plugin would crash elsewhere, but I've been stuck for ages with no solution (well apart from reencoding to Prores and conforming with them, kinda defeats the benefits of RAW color correction...)
 
FLUT is one of the new controls in the latest RedCine-X. It's another bit of Graeme's magic that allows you to adjust the brightness of your image without changing the highlight values. (In extra basic terms. It's a bit more complex than that)
 
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