What is Stage 3 worth

[sergio arguello]

seems with price increase a package from red for an Epic package equal to Epic-X package would cost 50,365 + tax so what is it worth to buy a body turn it in + 10k and jump in line, wait jump into the party.???? interested to hear all thoughts on this matter.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Can you explain the pricing you came by? i think it is closer to $43,500usd

this is what i come up with...am i WRONG?


NEW PRICES:

Epic X Brain: $35,000
Titanium PL Mount: $2,000
Side SSD Module: $1,500
5” touchscreen LCD: $1,950
Redmote: $750
Module Adaptor: $300
Pro Battery Module: $1,450 (dual)
(2) Redvolt Batts: $380 (2 batts @$195 each)
Travel charger: $125

Total: $43,455

 

[sergio arguello]

3. Given the tragedy in Japan, EPIC-X production was delayed. The other side effect is that prices of many things have gone up. Given this, we are announcing a price increase on some items that will take effect on January 1st, 2012. If you have your order and deposit in before Dec. 31, 2011 you will get the old price. Any new orders placed after Jan. 1, 2012 will be charged the new price. Price increases in bold.


Product .................................... OLD PRICE ... NEW PRICE
RED ONE M-X .............................. $25,000 ..... $25,000
RED ONE Side SSD Module ............ $1500/ ....... $1500
Mysterium-X upgrade for RED ONE .. $5,750 ....... $5,750

EPIC-M Package ........................... $58,000 .... $58,000
EPIC-M brain ............................................. ... $39,500
EPIC-X Brain ................................ $28,000 .. $35,000 see note below
EPIC PL Ti ................................... $2000 ....... $2000
BOMB EVF ................................... $3200 ....... $3200
REAR SSD MODULE ....................... $1500 ....... $1500
SIDE SSD MODULE ........................ $1500 ....... $1500
DSMC Side Handle ........................ $950 ....... $1,750
MODULE ADAPTOR ........................ $300 ........ $300
PRO BATTERY MODULE (QUAD) ......................... $1950
RED Touch LCD 5" ........................ $1,600 .... $1,950
REDmote ..................................... $550 ....... $750
Pro I/O Module ............................. $2,950 .... $3,750
Pro Battery Module (Dual) .............. $1,250 ..... $1,450
REDVolt .................................................. ...... $195
DSMC Travel Charger ........................................ $125
EPIC-M custom lasercut Pelican case ................... $595

5. Stage 3 will reflect similar changes to the package as Stage 2. Stage 3 package price is $28,000 less $17,500 and trade in your non-executed RED ONE. Net due is $10,500.

 

[Johnny Friday]

and an X package = what? i believe close to $43,500 with NEW Prices...not sure where you get $50, 365....add up ONLY the items included in the X package.

EDIT: Stage 2 & 3 INCLUDES:
Stage 2 was changed recently. The newest package includes an EPIC-X Brain, Titanium PL Mount, Side SSD Module, 5" Touchscreen LCD, REDmote, Module Adaptor, Pro Battery Module, 2 REDvolt Batteries and Travel Charger

 

[Paul S.]

I'm not sure where that figure comes from either. At $50K+, there would be little point in NOT going for Epic-M, which comes with even more good stuff.
...but I think the noises coming from Jim and Jarred indicate that stage 4 will get to order (if not take delivery) of Epic brains at 2011 prices.
also not everyone buying 'a la carte' (as opposed to the kit) will take all the parts - the PL mount being an obvious example. some might go straight for the Canon mount, or in any case there may be a fair few PLs going cheap by then.

 

[sergio arguello]

went back and counted and stand well corrected...that said gentlemen what would you sell a stage 3 red1 body for? and would you say that getting ahead of all the 3.5, 4. etc has its value as well?

 

[Johnny Friday]

I'm not sure where that figure comes from either. At $50K+, there would be little point in NOT going for Epic-M, which comes with even more good stuff.
...but I think the noises coming from Jim and Jarred indicate that stage 4 will get to order (if not take delivery) of Epic brains at 2011 prices.
also not everyone buying 'a la carte' (as opposed to the kit) will take all the parts - the PL mount being an obvious example. some might go straight for the Canon mount, or in any case there may be a fair few PLs going cheap by then.

I thought there was a lot of conversation on the mounts already...body comes with the PL mount...and not a choice of choose PL or cannon....because RED could NEVER know how many PL's to have made....so i don't think the mount is even an option even though you are charged for it....that was last i saw on threads about this.....

 

[Dan Kanes]

I think asking any more than 17,500+sales tax is a crime.

The idea behind the program is this is an incentive for early red one adopters, not some brokering service madhouse - I guess some people just like to gamble though.

Personal opinion - I was originally looking to get a stage 2 or stage 3 from someone - but it doesn't make any sense with the false inflation and complex, and often corrupt schemes it takes to do all the ownership switching.

 

[sergio arguello]

@dan- So you feel that someone should sell a stage 3 for 17.5 and the the buyer can trade it in for 17.5 and pay 10.5 to RED and get a 43.5k package?

im not sure we reside in the same place...

 

[Dan Kanes]

I just feel that it gets old hearing about all this bartering over what at this point is still a dream.

Ultimately it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

Do you think that a bare body (non MX) could somehow go up in price? I personally don't. My opinion is that its a gamble and in some ways the same kind of financial irresponsibility we see on a global scale.

an MX body should be worth 25,000 in my opinion.

I think to be able to get 17,500 (or 25,000 in case of MX) for something that is still X number of days away is really your best bet at this time.

I like you, so please don't consider this an insult - I just think that the question should be: whatever you can manage to get for it from someone who is willing to gamble is what the value is. Valuing something that hasn't come out yet, might be any number of days, weeks months or years away, at any more than its retail value after all the time you have had to make money with it shooting it or renting it - then I mean - to have essentially zero depreciation on it is really unheard of. You'll be able to get a lot more money for an X when it ships, until then its still a pipe dream.

I'd check with Ketch though - even though bartering X's is "officially" verboten he still somehow manages to be a broker and get stuff like early prototype parts. Man, that must be the life.

 

[Dan Kanes]

Look at it this way:

NEW PRICES:
(side SSD module, Titanium PL mount are already part of the "brain" price - if they aren't then you are getting SOOO boned buying someone else's Stage 3)
Epic X Brain: $35,000
5” touchscreen LCD: $1,950
Redmote: $750
Module Adaptor: $300
Pro Battery Module: $1,450 (dual)
(2) Redvolt Batts: $380 (2 batts @$195 each)
Travel charger: $125

Total:39,955
-17,500
= 22,455
-10,500 to red at trade in
= 11,955 "Gift Premium"

So in my opinion the "MAXIMUM" "PREMIUM" someone should be making off of someone to cut in line should be $12,000

So - if you can get between 30,000 and 35,000 for a used, unexecuted MX or nonMX body then you are really way way way way way ahead of the curve.

If you can get 17.500 for a non MX body you are way ahead of the curve.
If you can get 25,000 for an MX body you are way ahead of the curve.

 

[Mark T Workman]

I think asking any more than 17,500+sales tax is a crime.

The idea behind the program is this is an incentive for early red one adopters, not some brokering service madhouse - I guess some people just like to gamble though.

Personal opinion - I was originally looking to get a stage 2 or stage 3 from someone - but it doesn't make any sense with the false inflation and complex, and often corrupt schemes it takes to do all the ownership switching.

I tend to agree with what you're saying Dan and IN THIS DEPRESSED MARKET, I would like to see A LOT MORE FROM RED on how the legitimate ownership "switching" works through Red in these sales! These discussions of where the "curve" are seem fairly laughable considering the reality of our economy vs. RED economy (apparently) making a seller's market as used R1's are going for previously NEW prices if you've got the Epic upgrade in there.

Obviously all of your other costly R1 equipment will be negated with the change over to Epic so if you have to lease or invest in more R1 equipment just to get shooting for a few months, better factor that in too along with the cost of your new Epic since you'll be handing it over. For me it's only worth it if the R1 in question comes with a Nikon Adapter or at least one decent lens for what ever the mount on it is. It does seem like a big gamble when you consider how pissed you'll be if you find out that "upgrade" didn't really exist...

 

[Elsie N]

I thought there was a lot of conversation on the mounts already...body comes with the PL mount...and not a choice of choose PL or cannon....because RED could NEVER know how many PL's to have made....so i don't think the mount is even an option even though you are charged for it....that was last i saw on threads about this.....

Heh, heh... yeah, the Titanium PL mount is for some who shoot only still lenses, the Epic version of the early adopters Ti R. Looks pretty but otherwise, useless.

 

[Mark T Workman]

Heh, heh... yeah, the Titanium PL mount is for some who shoot only still lenses, the Epic version of the early adopters Ti R. Looks pretty but otherwise, useless.

Good point and it doesn't work with Nikon glass either right? I believe I've heard the Epic Nikon mount adds another $1K to the price tag.

One additional question I haven't seen addressed here myself yet is: Since the Red 1 NEW now goes for $22K which is only $4.5K more than a general fair $16-17.5 used as (old as new) asking price, "Will there eventually be a separate Epic upgrade price for those willing to buy into the new R1s now?"

Since we all know Epic is going up $7K at the end of the year, this would seem to be a great SAFE half step incentive for both Red and those who have been waiting for years now and want an Epic X or even S or Scarlett etc but would really like to get started shooting sooner than later... It would also provide more users for current R1 equipment. Thoughts?

 

[Mark T Workman]

In the interest of accuracy a new RED One body (not including a CF or SSD module) is $25,000.

Here is the link -> RED One-MX

Thanks for the correction Mr. Frank. I've only recently thought about getting a stripped down R1 to work with my Nikon glass and am just getting up to date yet again...

 

[Dan Kanes]

@Mark Workman - slightly Off Topic - but Check out the Allstar Cine Mount for R1, or the Nikon Prolock mount for R1 from Optitek. Both are pretty great Nikon mounts for the R1.

@Robert - Agree with you new __MX__ body is 25k.
MX Sensor upgrade is I think 5750

 

[sergio arguello]

Sorry but i think the point flew i the wind...or perhaps i didn't make the thread clear. Value of stage 3 has absolutely nothing IMHO to do with RED1 value. In fact stage 3 has everything to do with hard values of EPIC-X and all that that entails. Now, we've done the math and 43.5k is what the the package is worth
hence RED pricing less 10.5 equals 33k now after that the seller and buyer must take certain values under consideration. the first and most obvious is supply and demand, if there are an abundance of non-executed Red1's out there , secondly, what is it worth to have EPIC-x early to the buyer. As we who have been in this since 2008 know far too well as the market saturates rental values are well effected. So its that basis that value should be deemed. Not what someone feels RED's upgrade intention was, nor global economic conditions. Cinema equipment is its own microcosm, and has its own economy. Its a commodity that is capable of generating more economy. A 60k camera in the right hands can make 60m. Just saying..

 

[Eric-taner]

Sorry but i think the point flew i the wind...or perhaps i didn't make the thread clear. Value of stage 3 has absolutely nothing IMHO to do with RED1 value. In fact stage 3 has everything to do with hard values of EPIC-X and all that that entails. Now, we've done the math and 43.5k is what the the package is worth
hence RED pricing less 10.5 equals 33k now after that the seller and buyer must take certain values under consideration. the first and most obvious is supply and demand, if there are an abundance of non-executed Red1's out there , secondly, what is it worth to have EPIC-x early to the buyer. As we who have been in this since 2008 know far too well as the market saturates rental values are well effected. So its that basis that value should be deemed. Not what someone feels RED's upgrade intention was, nor global economic conditions. Cinema equipment is its own microcosm, and has its own economy. Its a commodity that is capable of generating more economy. A 60k camera in the right hands can make 60m. Just saying..

So True, stage 3 EPIC-X Package is minimum 43.5k, actually more, cause your buying time, and gonna be ahead of 1000 others

 

[Dan Kanes]

Best wishes to you all!

 

[Johnny Friday]

i think what i stated prevously......the package (new prices)--- what i believe you would pay if you were to drop in today and WANT to buy an Epic....don't think you would take delivery or pay for one till after the year??? But that price should be around $43.5 or a bit more if someone is going to pay a premium and many will want to ...in order to get it this or next month. but not more than say around $50k sice you are nearing EPIC M prices taht you can buy TODAY.....but M accs. vs. X are also different...add in the (4) 128gb cards, EVF and i think if you sell for $43.5 to 45k....that is about the range.....


.....then factor the camera into that....the R1