What is ABSOLUTLY minimum money for buy EPIC and shoot?

[Alexey Datsenko]

Tell me please what is minimum money need I to buy Epic and shoot?
What is minimum of accessories absolutely necessary to buy even it will be not very comfortable to shoot but possible to shoot if you have not enough money for comfortable shooting? Is it possible to spend 40 000 USD?
Correct me if I am wrong:
1. Epic brain - 28 000 USD (there is no way to economize this item of expenses) We can't without it. Can we?
2. 2,8'' LCD Touchscreen - 900 USD (we have to see what we are shooting)
Of course BOBM EVF is prefered but I think we can shoot with LCD Touchscreen and without BOBM EVF? Can't we?
3. REDMOTE - 550 USD (We need to see the many parameters of shooting)
We can't without it. Can we?
4. Base plate - 500 USD (we need where we will assemble our accessories together). We can't without it. Can we?
5. BASE I/O Module - 1750. I don't know the practical difference between Base and PRO I/O Module But I think we can shoot with BASE I/O module. We can't without it. Can we?
6. Battary module - 1250. We can't without it.
7. RED DRIVE - 900 USD
8. Lenses. I have only 5-6 000 USD for lenses so I think I can buy only one for example RED 17-50mm or maybe it would be better to buy another one.

And I don't know exectly what is SIDE SF MODULE - 500 USD? SIDE HANDLE 950 USD? BOTTOM HANDLE - 350 USD? DUAL SF REAR MODULE - 950 USD? 1,8"" SSD MODULE - 950 USD? TOP MOUNT - 200 USD? ELECTRONIC RED MOUNT - 500 USD? BUT I think we can shoot without it. Can't we?

SO WE HAVE 39850! Is it possible to shoot with such set? Or We absolutely need to add something else?

Thank you

 

[Martin Weiss]

If money is your primary concern, you might also want to consider a used RED One. They are fantastic cameras, and once the Epics start rolling out (they are not available yet, projected release date is now summer 2010 - and there will be queues for that camera) you might get a good deal on them.

Thus you can start shooting right now - rather than having to wait a couple of months. You can learn the power of R3D now. You can start earing money to finance the upgrade to the Epic.

 

[Alexey Datsenko]

If money is your primary concern, you might also want to consider a used RED One.

Thanks, I am thinking about it and If I will not be able toy buy Epic for 40 000 USD I think I will buy used or new RED ONE for about 35 000 USD if I will find it. But of course Epic is more interisting if it is possible for 40 000 USD.

 

[Martin Weiss]

For 35k you should get a very nice R1 kit.

For a bit over 20k you would get a workable R1 kit - pro-lock Nikon mount or the A-mount with Nikon/PL. Then you can start earning money, sell your R1 for 10-15k and upgrade to the Epic when it is available.

RAW is just too good to wait another half year.

 

[Steve Das]

Tell me please what is minimum money need I to buy Epic and shoot?

Why not buy Scarlet S35 brain it will be priced under $10,000. It will
only be more limited in slo-motion rates than Epic.

 

[Alexey Datsenko]

Why not buy Scarlet S35 brain it will be priced under $10,000. It will
only be more limited in slo-motion rates than Epic.

If you are right I wiil buy Scarlet S35 if it will have so good "film look" picture like Epic.
I want to get Epic (it is the best camera at RED I think and I am sure I wiil be able to shoot movie with Epic), but if I will not be able to buy Epic for 40 000 USD I will try to get RED ONE for 35 000 USD I think (now) RED ONE is better then Scarlet S35 (and RED ONE I can buy now and I am sure I wiil be able to shoot movie with RED ONE too )..but of course if Scarlet's "film look" picture will be so good as Epic or even RED ONE of course I will buy Scarlet S35 with 5 lenses. But before we will not see footage from Scalet it is hard to say how better or worse in comparison with RED ONE but I think RED ONE is better then Scarlet S35 for "film look" shooting! Because price for Scarlet S35 with accessories and 5 lenses is about 25 000 USD and price for Epic with accessories and at least 1 lense is about 40 000 USD and I am not sure these two cameras will give the same perfect "film look" picture I think Epic will be perfect and Scarlet I am not sure. I Maybe I am wrong. But I wiil try to get Epic because in this case I am sure I will get the best camera and I wil be able to shoot everything I want first of all "film look" picture, so I will have the best camera for all products without any doubt. And if I will buy Epic even without lensess I will be able to rent lensess for some time and to buy lenses in the nearest future. But If I will buy Scarlet S35 a have two doubts:
1. I am not sure that Scarlet S35 Will be so good as Epic for "film look" shooting. May be I am wrong
2. If I will buy Scarlet S35 I will not be able to easly upgrate it to Epic because I will have to sell Scarlet body and mini-promes for low price and only then buy Epic body and RED PRO PRIMES. But may be I am wrong again.

 

[Jaime Vallés]

1. I am not sure that Scarlet S35 Will be so good as Epic for "film look" shooting. May be I am wrong
2. If I will buy Scarlet S35 I will not be able to easly upgrate it to Epic because I will have to sell Scarlet body and mini-promes for low price and only then buy Epic body and RED PRO PRIMES. But may be I am wrong again.

Alexey,

I think you're a little confused. There's the S35 Scarlet, and the 2/3" Scarlet. The S35 Scarlet is (I believe) almost identical to the Epic in sensor size (Super35), lenses used (RED Pro Primes, etc.), resolution (5K) and picutre quality (Awesome). The main difference is that the Epic can shoot at higher frame rates. Both of these cameras will produce "Hollywood" quality images, supposedly better than the current RED ONE image.

The 2/3" Scarlet is the one that uses The RED Mini Primes. It shoots 3K resolution on a 2/3" sensor (much smaller than the Epic or S35 Scarlet sensors) and requires lenses made for the small sensor.

The Epic brain is $28000
The S35 Scarlet brain is $7000
The 2/3" Scarlet brain is $2750

The S35 Scarlet should be an overall better camera than the RED ONE. It's higher resolution, newer sensor, modular, and less expensive. Keep in mind that for the price of ONE Epic, you can buy FOUR S35 Scarlet brains, or a complete set of RED Pro Primes.

Hope this helps!

 

[Alexey Datsenko]

Alexey,

I think you're a little confused. There's the S35 Scarlet, and the 2/3" Scarlet. The S35 Scarlet is (I believe) almost identical to the Epic in sensor size (Super35), lenses used (RED Pro Primes, etc.), resolution (5K) and picutre quality (Awesome). The main difference is that the Epic can shoot at higher frame rates. Both of these cameras will produce "Hollywood" quality images, supposedly better than the current RED ONE image.

The 2/3" Scarlet is the one that uses The RED Mini Primes. It shoots 3K resolution on a 2/3" sensor (much smaller than the Epic or S35 Scarlet sensors) and requires lenses made for the small sensor.

The Epic brain is $28000
The S35 Scarlet brain is $7000
The 2/3" Scarlet brain is $2750

The S35 Scarlet should be an overall better camera than the RED ONE. It's higher resolution, newer sensor, modular, and less expensive. Keep in mind that for the price of ONE Epic, you can buy FOUR S35 Scarlet brains, or a complete set of RED Pro Primes.

Hope this helps!

Thank you
It is good news for me about the same RED PRO PRIMES for both Scarlet S35 and Epic.
Yes I am confused because I can't completely believe that Scarlet S35 is so similer to the so best Epic and has much less prise - about 20K cheaper so I was expekted for some trick. But if it will be really so I think if We will not be able to buy Epic because of prise it absolutely well to buy Scarlet S35 in 20K cheaper.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Thank you
It is good news for me about the same RED PRO PRIMES for both Scarlet S35 and Epic.
Yes I am confused because I can't completely believe that Scarlet S35 is so similer to the so best Epic and has much less prise - about 20K cheaper so I was expekted for some trick. But if it will be really so I think if We will not be able to buy Epic because of prise it absolutely well to buy Scarlet S35 in 20K cheaper.

scarlet S35 has no slo motion and cant dequeeze anamorphic pictures.
i tried to figure out the 20 000 usd difference myself, but if you want slo motion, slo motion costs money!

 

[Justin O'Neill]

Yes I am confused because I can't completely believe that Scarlet S35 is so similer to the so best Epic and has much less prise - about 20K cheaper so I was expekted for some trick.

The trick is Epic can do 100fps @5k and 250fps @2k. The S35 Scarlet can do 30fps (and 72fps bursts) @5k and 72fps @2k.

Jannard stated that it is those extra framerates in Epic that cost the extra money.

 

[Steve Das]

Jannard stated that it is those extra framerates in Epic that cost the extra money.

No way around it...digital or film...Slow-motion is expensive.

 

[Alexey Datsenko]

scarlet S35 has no slo motion and cant dequeeze anamorphic pictures.
i tried to figure out the 20 000 usd difference myself, but if you want slo motion, slo motion costs money!

Slow motion is cool of course,
anamorphic pictures is 16:9
What is dequeeze? Explaine please it

Thank you

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Slow motion is cool of course,
anamorphic pictures is 16:9
What is dequeeze? Explaine please it

Thank you

just follow the link...forget the text...

http://www.moviola.com/UserFiles/Im...ticle_gfx/sd_hd_basics/anamorphic_film_v2.jpg

picture no. 1 is how the image is captured.
picture no.2 is how epic will show it when you look through the finder or monitor.

scarlet cant do that!
you will see the shot through the monitor like in picture no. 1

(this is for ana lenses with a 2:1 squeeze...which covers a 4:3 area of the sensor)

alternate:
there are new ana lenses with a 1.3:1 squeeze who cover a 16:9 area
of the sensor

solution:
there are 3rd party monitors who can dequeeze the preview signal you get from the HD SDI out...pro: you can still shoot ana with scarlet

BUT I am by no way a ana expert, i tested some Hawks, thats it...
to learn more about anas i follow david Mullens posts...hehe

 

[Peter Osinski]

first of all I want to say that I am not trying to talk down to the original poster. I have been trying to plan the cheapest possible scarlet cinema 2/3" package that i can get and still be effective for what i need.

that being said, I feel like buying an epic is like buying a sports car. One of those "if you have to ask you can't afford it", except its more like "if you have to ask, you should just get a scarlet"

 

[Imran Farouk]

Theres always the upgrade path don't forget,

Start scarlet 2/3's -> Scarlet S35 and then to Monstro if you really wanted to jump S35 Epic because you are closer to Monstro time...

The whole "filmic" look thing, its digital, make it what you want to look like in post (within reason)...

Though as everyone points out...is the frame rates what your after or a look? If the look then achieve with what you can afford or purchase low to keep money aside for rainy day...sometimes one system isn't enough...

 

[Milan Spasic]

Keep in mind that for the price of ONE Epic, you can buy FOUR S35 Scarlet brains, or a complete set of RED Pro Primes.

Hope Red realizes this discrepancy and prices Scarlet S35 accordingly. I believe they will.... if R1 sensor upgrade alone costs $6000, I don't see Scarlet S35 costing only $7000.

 

[Jaime Vallés]

Hope Red realizes this discrepancy and prices Scarlet S35 accordingly. I believe they will.... if R1 sensor upgrade alone costs $6000, I don't see Scarlet S35 costing only $7000.

But the sensor is the expensive part. If the M-X upgrade is close to $6000, it stands to reason that the S35 brain costs $7000, since it's essentially the same sensor in a box, no? That's what the modular concept does. It lets us upgrade just the sensor box, keeping the other electronics intact.

 

[Milan Spasic]

But the sensor is the expensive part. If the M-X upgrade is close to $6000, it stands to reason that the S35 brain costs $7000, since it's essentially the same sensor in a box, no? That's what the modular concept does. It lets us upgrade just the sensor box, keeping the other electronics intact.

I may be wrong but I don't think that Scarlet S35 is just a "sensor in a box", it's a complete camera.

 

[Justin O'Neill]

I may be wrong but I don't think that Scarlet S35 is just a "sensor in a box", it's a complete camera.

The S35 Scarlet brain is part of the DSMC system so the brain is just the sensor and electronics necessary to process the image data and two audio in ports. To get a full camera you have to add modules just like with the Epic.

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

unless you shoot alot of highspeed (I NEVER do... the highest i ever go is 48fps)
then the cheaper scarlet is your best bet.

I imagine alot of productions will lean towards renting a scarlet package because A. it will be a cheaper rental.. and B. they wont need to shoot the extra frame rates..

But then again, my theory is that ALOT of production companies will just buy their own scarlets and subrent lenses (unless they just buy their own kit)

then you can say goodbye to rentals in this regard :/