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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

What does this mean?

David Rasberry said:
It will only take a few months, not a few years. Scarlet and Epic will share many common components within and between each model line. We should be seeing working production prototypes of S35 and 2/3" platforms by late summer/early fall latest and they should be in production by the end of 2009 or 1st quarter 2010. 2 sensors, 2 levels of processing, common mechanical components. 1 year from the last December announcement date to first production run is not unreasonable. Monstro was originally announced for 2010 anyway so no real change there.
Of course if the world economy totally falls off a cliff between now and then all bets are off. But that is the only thing that will hold RED back. They can make the product.
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At last, I have been asking for a while, and it was lucky I stumbled on this thread to find this data. I will have to buy another camera and come back to the scarlet latter.
 
albert rudnicki said:
Breathe Justin Breathe
Don't let Red get to ya!
Breathe!
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Best advice....Last year I was all up in arms and crying foul about all the changes and what have you. Where did it get me? Nowhere at all. I used to say..."But I got productions waiting and this freaking camera is going to ruin me if they don't launch it"

Someone in this forum told me that to base all my production shootings on the release of the Scarlet was absolutely nonsense...and you know what? He was right. Since then I upgraded my trusty 'ol DVX100 and I got myself an HVX200 and a Nikon D90. Yes...compared to anything Red makes currently and will make in the future...they suck..but they are good tools nontheless. I am out there producing, making money, and saving some for the Scarlet...whenever it comes out.

I have found new joy just shooting and being creative rather than wasting my time getting pissed of at Red for absolutely no reason whatsoever. The wait is worth it...considering ( my humble opinion) that the only thing better than the Scarlet or Epic is a Red One...and I sure don't have the money for that lovely piece of equipment!
 
Best way to look at it from an indie perspective. Get the tools that work for you now so you can purchase the tools you want from your hard work. Or save up until they come out!
 
They also say it takes 10,000 hours to become a master at something, so keep practicing your craft it only makes you better. The tools just allow you a better distribution possibility.
 
Never forget, tools don't equal talent. At times we are still renting Red Ones while waiting for the Epic but, we've gotten some really killer footage out of our in-house HPX500's and HVX200's and dof adapter. We shot a national spot 2 weeks ago using a 5D MKII and the results were spectacular. Point being, in many circumstances you can do amazing things with very little if you you know how to capitalize on it. The tool is only a very small part of the equation.
 
Joe Media said:
Never forget, tools don't equal talent. At times we are still renting Red Ones while waiting for the Epic but, we've gotten some really killer footage out of our in-house HPX500's and HVX200's and dof adapter. We shot a national spot 2 weeks ago using a 5D MKII and the results were spectacular. Point being, in many circumstances you can do amazing things with very little if you you know how to capitalize on it. The tool is only a very small part of the equation.
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I totally agree...I know of a guy that is getting some wicked images from a Sony Betamax camcorder (yup..the 80's home movies) connected to a DOF adapter...doing killer spec ads. Point is...if you are creative and have a great imagination, you can achieve everything with anything.....
 
got to love this comment:

"With the demonstration of the KY-F4000, JVC is positioned to be a major player in the 4K arena.

huh?...at 200K...yeah whatever...
 
I keep waiting for a serious response to Red from the competition, and it just doesn't seem to happen. To use a rather nerdy reference, I'm starting to think that from the perspective of the traditional camera vendors, Red is an Outside Context Problem.

From Iain M. Banks' Excession:

An Outside Context Problem was the sort of thing most civilisations encountered just once, and which they tended to encounter rather in the same way a sentence encountered a full stop. The usual example given to illustrate an Outside Context Problem was imagining you were a tribe on a largish, fertile island; you'd tamed the land, invented the wheel or writing or whatever, the neighbours were cooperative or enslaved but at any rate peaceful and you were busy raising temples to yourself with all the excess productive capacity you had, you were in a position of near-absolute power and control which your hallowed ancestors could hardly have dreamed of and the whole situation was just running along nicely like a canoe on wet grass... when suddenly this bristling lump of iron appears sailless and trailing steam in the bay and these guys carrying long funny-looking sticks come ashore and announce you've just been discovered [...]
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Red's pricing, and generally Red's sort of IT-influenced approach, seem like they're so far outside of what the traditional vendors are used to dealing with that they simply have no response at all.
 
It doesn't make sense to me...

It doesn't make sense to me...

klinke said:
Now, with sales dropping (and whatever you may have found out about the US market, Justin, in Europe they definitely are, with prices, both retail and rental, tumbling accordingly), they have no other choice but to minimize their cost factors, .
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I don't understand this type of market analysis. Take a look at Scarlet fixed lens' spec and price tag. For the same price, you get a product thousands of times better than its competitors (considering both resolution and frame rate). It can drive all the competitors completely out of the $3-6,000 market segment. Why did anybody say there's less of a market?

I don't think it's necessarily true that it take both Scarlet and Epic together to make financial sense, as some suggested. For every one Epic unit sold, there will be over 1,000 fixed Scarlet sold, especially in this economy.

It doesn't make sense to pay overtime in this economy, but it will totally make sense to hire better workers with less cost.

The fact that the production team did a lot of overtime, and the fact that they'd rather push back the schedule than hiring more people make me feel that the work flow is labor-intensive and requires hard-to-acquired skills. It gives me a bad feeling that it might take them several years to clear the back orders for Scarlets.
 
But surely Scarlet will own the market in its field - so you'll be experiencing the sales that Panasonic HVX+HPX cameras, Sony, and all the sales the other manufacturers would normally receive.

I was expecting delays but was planning on waiting a bit and getting a Scarlet anyway. Now with the news of this slow-down I'm not sure I can wait that long, I will probably get an HPX or HVX panny.
 
Bob, I'm someone who's owned a HVX and I question why would you go out and buy one? I know there is this delay on scarlet, but scarlet will give you a picture quality you can only get halfway to with the HVX.

If you need something now can you not rent? I ask as the value on HVX will reduce drastically when the scarlet does come out and it will be harder to sell it on.

I know someone will now shoot me down, but I personally had a hvx for 2 years and we still have one at work and I hate the pictures it gives and seeing scarlet images makes me want to do nothing but wait for it to be released.

And I've personally been without a camera for a year now for the wait.

But things are different for different people so your circumstances may be critical you shoot now. If you can I'd say hire.

My penny's worth.

Richard
 
Leo,

I'd disagree. Look how quickly they cleared the backlog of RED ONE back orders and that was when the first camera system was being developed. As they now have experience of this, you know the pitfalls, the gains and so production becomes easier to manage even with a new system and most likely quicker to fulfill backorders.

But the same team are most likely really high quality people so to your point they probably already have hired the best workers at a good cost so I'd disagree with you about hiring better workers.

Jim always said they weren't in this to make a profit and I'd agree with that. They may make a profit due to this product being simply amazing and lots of people buying it. We've put up with Panny and Sony's crap for a while. Nice products but priced too high due to their development costs and large company overheads. Jim's team is all about amazing quality thats affordable and like with many products that are affordable you simply will sell more if the quality is there.

You're right there is a market out there for scarlet, but at the moment their own market for shooting is affected and so filmmakers will most likely be sticking to the old cameras just for affordability in projects where budgets are cut or where there are far fewer projects.

When the markets stabilise and the knock on effect is businesses and consumers with more cash to spend and less worries, people will no doubt give up their old cameras and embrace scarlet like they really want to now. But its all about timing and I totally respect Jim and his team for making this decision.

I believe they have the best people in place and are making the best decisions, why rush [and by rush I mean do and pay for lots of overtime] when people won't be ready to buy financially?

I will wait however long it takes as this will be the camera for me.

Thanks
Richard
 
majormorgan said:
Bob, I'm someone who's owned a HVX and I question why would you go out and buy one? I know there is this delay on scarlet, but scarlet will give you a picture quality you can only get halfway to with the HVX.

If you need something now can you not rent? I ask as the value on HVX will reduce drastically when the scarlet does come out and it will be harder to sell it on.

I know someone will now shoot me down, but I personally had a hvx for 2 years and we still have one at work and I hate the pictures it gives and seeing scarlet images makes me want to do nothing but wait for it to be released.

And I've personally been without a camera for a year now for the wait.

But things are different for different people so your circumstances may be critical you shoot now. If you can I'd say hire.

My penny's worth.

Richard
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Hi Richard,

After more thought I decided to wait for the scarlet, for the reasons you mention. I just hope it will be soon. You say you have seen images taken on the scarlet... where? I would love to see some and some moving images.
 
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